there weren't any Calvinists or Armenians? Then what would you have to talk about? Is it necessary to debate Theology when the world around us needs Truth? What will Jesus find us doing when he returns? Will we be bickering among ourselves about how many angels can stand on the head of a pin or will we be discipling others in the Truth of the Scriptures and teaching them to be followers of Jesus? I have little or next to no use for Theologians if their theology is all they can talk about. They are no more good than the Pharisees and Sadducees they sound like! How about putting your "mytheology" aside and rolling up your sleeves and getting a little "dirty" digging for Truth instead of scratching the surface for theory?
I believe theology is a necessary study for Christians. However, when theologlame the spell checker for the Armenia errorians would rather argue their beliefs then it becomes debatable whether or not they regard their theology more important than finding the Truth.
I blame the spell checker for the error in the spelling of Arminian. Too bad we can't add words to it.
Anyway, my point is simply that the constant bombardment of bickering and insulsts between Arminians and Calvinists on this site are not really that important in that they don't seem to be adding to the building up of others in the Faith. I would think that at some point some one would get their head out of their theology and care more about the needs of others. Instead they spew the disgusting vernacular of self righteousness. I have been to Bible college and Seminary. they are great places to learn to fill in the blanks of your Bible study guide before anyone else can and they give you plent of amo to take your beliefs out on other believers but they hardly teach the Truth of the Word.
James says, "We would still have PLENTY to talk about, and debate.
I am guessing you have not read much church history?
One reason it is necessary is because of heretics,"
I have read a lot of Church History and I am ashamed of most of it Do you mean heritics like the murderous John Calvin? We will always have heritics.
" PART.....of the Christian life, is being able to defend your faith, and give a reason for the hope that is within you." Right, well, defending wouild imply that you are under attack. I think the only attacks here are coming from a paranoid imagination that exixts with the Calvinists and Arminians. Hmm?
" This is a discussion board. And to put a finer point on it, this is the SECTION of the discussion board where we discuss the Bible and what it teaches us." Right, a discussion board about the Bible and not your theological agenda.
" I don't understand your last comments about "dirty" digging for the truth" Whenever you tout the teachings of a moron like Calvin or Arminius you are not teaching the Truth. As long as your knowledge of the word is based on the teachings of men you have no grounds to assume you actually know the Truth. The Truth is a person with whom you have relationship not a book you cuddle up with to support your twisted doctrines.
@ Leon who said "One other important point, Up until fairly recently, it was the main requirement for "theology is not theory. it is the study of God. It is derived from the Greek Theos, meaning God. So, do you still think theology is useless?" I agree, Theology is not theory it is a systematic study of God and no I don't think it is useless but windbag theologians are.
Leon also said, " Pastors and Ministers in the Christian faith. When untaught people started being ordained, that was the beginning of heresy in the churches. Just like Peter warned." Are we to believe that because someone is educated and ordained that they know Truth. What about all the preachers in the Word of Faith Movement, What about the garbage from Tim Lahaye? (who by the way was one of my teachers in Bible College.) Really? Do you think that going to Seminary qualifies someone to preach and teach the Truth? Highly unlikely. They may be able to tout the answers to theological questions and exhort the Word from the perspective they were taught but they rarely ever actually consider whether or not the are preaching Truth. If they did they would stop what they are doing, confess and change their ways, wouldn't they? I say, "Garbage in garbage out" .
Only the Holy Spirit can teach us Truth. I agree with PJ, Calvinism (and Arminianism) is theory because neither are fully expressions of Truth.
Presby, their is a difference between "what is true" and Truth. I'm talking about Truth. If the Word is Truth then it is Truth for all and for all time. " What is true" is generally based on facts and facts change where Truth never changes. It is absolute and eternal. It is the essence of God and the reflection of His character and nature. It cannot be found in Theology but is rather known in experiencing the presence of God and hearing His voice expressed in His Word and by His Spirit. A person can be a Theologian and never know Truth and one can know Truth without ever being a Theologian.
Thunder, you just cracked the sky open and brought some Glory back to God, here. :applause:
Egypt is on fire, the whole world is threatened by the "radical brotherhood" and we need to be about our Father's business....along with some much needed humor now and then.
Some excellent points, Thunder. I actually agree. The Word of Faith Movement actually started their own Colleges so they could teach their doctrine, much as the Purpose Driven Church has done.
But you are right. I have seen many on fire Christians go to Seminary, only to come out robots that can only see church doctrine and not truth. Look at the guys the Discovery Channel uses to give the "Christian" perspective, most don't even believe anymore.
Spurgeon also said that though he abhorred what Wesley taught, that if another Apostle were needed, he would be hard pressed to find one as worthy as he. During that time, Wesley was being denounced by almost everyone as a heretic, but his love for God and the brotherhood so impressed Spurgeon that he would have him made an Apostle, were one needed. That should really be our attitude. I struggle with it, but it should still be how we relate to each other.
Thunder, I'm Praising God for you this morning! And I'm Praising God cause He's my Saviour!
GLORY!:angel:
I pray God continue to strengthen all His children and Bless the men of God who aren't afraid to take a stand against the enemy. If God be for us, who can be against us?
God knows my heart, Leon, and He knows there's no hatred in it so you praying for abused children, or hurting families who have lost children to drugs and alcohol, or young soldiers who are fighting so even calvinists have the freedom to spew their nonsense, would be more profitable.
Praying sincere prayers,
Deborah
The joy and peace I've felt this morning isn't going to be stolen from me by you, Leon.:laugh:
�Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy�meditate on these things.� Philippians 4:8
Debating theology can be either a good or bad thing. If it is done with an open heart and a willingness to listen, then it is a discussion and is good. But if people are bent open spouting their own beliefs, without being willing to listen to what others say and are not willing to admit they do not know everything, then is becomes an argument and it does God no good.
�1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? 4 For when one says, �I am of Paul,� and another,
�I am of Apollos,� are you not carnal? 5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase. 8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.� 1 Corinthians 3:1-8
Carnal: not spiritual; merely human; temporal; worldly: a man of secular, rather carnal, leanings
People have been comparing theologians since the beginning of Christianity. Paul and Apollos, two of the early Church leaders themselves were being compared. And yet Paul said it was worldly to compare men of God and say one is better than the other. What we need to remember is that both Calvin and Arminius were men of God, and just that, MEN. Neither were perfect, neither had all the answers and yet they looked to the Bible for the truth. Both interpreted the Bible in different ways. It does not mean that one is completely right and the other completely wrong. There is that possibility, but there is also the possibility that both men may have misinterpreted scripture because they were men. There is only one who has walked this earth that was perfect, and that was Jesus.
�But sanctify the Lord God[d] in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;� (NKJV)
�But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear� (KJV)1 Peter 3
We are called to be able to defend the word of God, meaning, be able to explain what God�s Word says. The only way we can do this is by studying God�s word and discussing what it means with others. Discussing the Bible allows us to better understand what the Bible says, specifically when there are things in the Bible that we do not understand. It is then good for us to go to someone else and ask, �Do you understand this?� However, we always need to go to God with anything that is said and see what His Word says to what we have been told. To see if it what has been said will stand upon God's Word.
�13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.� Romans 10:13-18
In addition to helping us better understand God�s Word, we are also witnessing through the Word of God. When we do not share God�s Word, then people do not have a chance for Salvation. We are saved by our Faith in God, but as the Bible states, how can we be saved if we have never even heard of God?
Some very good points, Kat. One thing though, we are saved by grace THROUGH faith. It is a small thing, but important. Saved by faith would mean we played a part in the gift of salvation. Saved by the grace of God, that is imparted to us through faith, is what I see from the scriptures. I won't post them and be accused again of scripture whipping someone, unless you ask me to do so.
