Does it Glorify man when Jesus, made mention of Man's faith?
Mt 9:29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.
Mt 9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.
Mt 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
Mr 10:52 And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way.
Do you suppose Jesus was confused, he pointed out these people had faith and they where not even saved?
That doesn't mean we can ignore all the scriptures that say differently, they have to be reconciled so that they are in agreement, how can you do that? I know that believers in the doctrine of grace can, I have seen them do it, but i have never seen you do it. You change the subject or insult the people asking. Well, I am asking again for you to explain how you can make all these scriptures come into agreement?
Well Leon, is it not in the parable of the sower, no one has proved anything by their doctrines of grace, but their unbelief in light of scripture.
Take heed what you hear!!
Luke8:18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.
Luke8:823 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Who is the one that beareth good fruit?
We could start with our unregenerate father of faith Abraham!!
One scripture does not void all the ones you don't like. The bible explains that those called will believe. There have been posted many scriptures that you either cannot or will not explain. Why? Can you not justify your doctrine with ALL scripture?
Any can scripture banter, it leads nowhere. It is like two people playing tennis and they both serve at the same time. Some one needs to hit one back over the net. Some one needs to step up and harmonize ANY scripture with their doctrine. Or at least explain why it doesn't harmonize.
Amen Two, that is exactly what the parable of the sower does!!
Those that obeyed the word even in the old testament with the abilities given to them, even while yet separated from the father spiritually.
Man has always had the ability to hear.
Man has always had the ability to believe.
Man has always had to exercise faith.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
1 � Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
4 � By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
PJ has been shown, and I assume you have read them as well, over and over again, but cannot show how his line up with the whole of scripture.
Not one single person here has ever said that we do not need faith. What has been proven, over and over again, is that God gives us that faith. So, the argument that we need faith is moot.
But, I will play again. Let's look at the parable of the sower.
Luk 8:10 And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that 'SEEING THEY MAY NOT SEE, AND HEARING THEY MAY NOT UNDERSTAND.'
Luk 8:11 "Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
Luk 8:12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Luk 8:13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.
Luk 8:14 Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity.
Luk 8:15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.
What is the difference here? In the final scenario, the only one where they are saved, it is the condition of the heart that allows them to believe. Now let's see what scripture has to say.
Eze 36:26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
But why would God have to give us a new heart? Here's why!
Jer 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it?
So, God gives us a heart of flesh and the Spirit, so we can here and believe.
Now, let's hear how PJ's opinion can be reconciled to all the scripture that SirJames posted.
I have already reconciled Sir James 5 best verses.
The scripture you posted contains a interesting sentence :
Luke 8:10 And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables.
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This is in harmony with my earlier post on this thread as a example of God drawing men by the Holy Spirit giving them understanding. It still does not deny the possibility of a innate ability given to man at his creation by God to be able to respond to the Holy Spirit if they choose to. This, in my estimation is the issue you need to answer with scripture.
If you have no desire to seek God, how can you accept Him? And I must have missed where you reconciled James' scriptures to free will. I will look again.
Leon, We don't seek God, God seeks us. Unless you have scripture that says otherwise : Man after the fall retained a innate ability to respond to God when he calls. The response varies. This can be seen with Adam and Eve hiding when God called them to the many who have responded favorably to Gods call.
