Author	Thread: The Pre-Trib Rapture: Interpreting Scripture By Scripture
Admin	The Pre-Trib Rapture: Interpreting Scripture By Scripture Posted : 13 Jan, 2011 06:02 AM The Pre-Trib Rapture: Interpreting Scripture By Scripture This is especially for Ferngirl and any other new Christians - children in Christ - who have joined CDFF to find fellowship and maybe a friend of the opposite sex. CDFF is populated almost entirely by followers of the Rapture Cult as is most other Christian forums. This means that new Baby Christians who join CDFF are likely to be led by others on this forum into the false doctrines of what is called dispensationalism, Scofieldism, Separation Theology, Christian Zionism and the Rapture Cult. The teaching of the Rapture Cult that the "Church" will be raptured off the earth to be with Christ before the tribulation begins is not the only false doctrine of this theology. The confusion it brings to one's identity in Christ is at the root of its problems. God in Isaiah 19: 25 talks about "Israel mine inheritance." God never talks about "The Church" as mine inheritance. Church is a translation in the King James Version of the Greek word ekklesia which means an assembly, or a congregation, which can be of Christians or of Hebrews (See Acts 7: 38 for use of "church" from ekklesia to describe the Hebrews in the wilderness). Christians have their identity in Christ as Israel reborn in him, not as being members of a church with a little c or a "Church" with a big C, and incorporated under the Internal Revenue Service. But lets focus here on the dispensationalist pre-tribulation rapture and how it disagrees with what scripture says. Paul says in I Corinthians 15: 51-52 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." The last trump is the last trumpet, or the seventh trumpet. Some dispensationalists or Rapture Cultists try to get around this by claiming that the seventh is not the end of the tribulation period, and/or that Paul did not know of the Book of Revelation's seven trumpets when he wrote this, which is a denial of the inspiration of the Holy Spirit on Paul's writing. Paul had not read the Book of Revelation but the Holy Spirit knew what was going to be in it. There is a second witness in Scripture to tell us when Christ will appear again. it is Matthew 24: 29-30, which says " Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." Matthew 24: 29-30 shows that the last trump of I Corinthians 15: 51-53 is the end of the tribulation and supports Paul's statement that Christ will appear at the end of the tribulation. Now the Rapture Cult comes back and says there will be two appearances of Christ, the first in secret to take up the "Church" to himself in the clouds and the second appearance at the end of the tribulation, maybe to get the people who were saved during the tribulation, but not martyred. But the Cult is not telling the truth. "Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves...Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place." Isaiah 28: 15. 17. The overflowing scrourge and the hail are the tribulation, which the Cult says will not come unto us.. Post Reply
View Profile History	The Pre-Trib Rapture: Interpreting Scripture By Scripture Posted : 13 Jan, 2011 11:26 PM sorry you're awesome hahahaha,,and yes i believe that the "church" has inherited lies and will be greatly shocked when they are all here as the tribulation starts many will be greatly deceived and many will fall as a result,,i do pray for you all,that you will listen to YHWH and open your eyes and see that you will not be taken away to some place away from judgement while Israel is judged here on earth,,i love you all but we really need to look at Scripture from a Hebrew perspective by that i mean you need to look at the Hebrew language to see what the words are that you are reading,,the only way you are going glean the truth from the Scriptures is if you look at them with the eyes of those it was originally given to (the assembly of Israel) which was given to them in a desert not a build see it is the people that are the church not some build where you go to pay your 10% tax and then leave feeling like you are good cause you sat and listened to a person give you what your going to believe for an hour,,or better yet why are there so many denominations when YHWH (GOD) says that HE is ONE and YAHSHUA (JESUS) is ONE with HIM and the BODY IS ONE so why is the christian church so many??? i'll tell you because we want to have church our way not GOD'S way we go to one church and they don't do it like we want then we go to another one,,and that my friends is the way it is,,we are told go make disciples,feed the hungry,visit prisoners,help widows and the orphans,,to build up not tear down,,and i know you may be thinking right now "he is tearing down "but brothers and sisters i say this with all love "COME OUT OF HER" get out of this system where we put dogma inbtween us and YHWH,,study the Feast of YHWH and keep them,,they are shadows of what is to come,,yes be on the look out for the time has come brothers and sisters it is so close,,the anti-messiah is here in the flesh working right now,,i'm about to post info on how you can see who he is right now,,i love you all and i say again "COME OUT OF HER" leave this system of babylon ,,YAHSHUA did not do away with the Torah,,the law was and always is perfect it is us that is corrupt and that is why we need MESSIAH so bad,,for if the Torah could save us we would not have needed MESSIAH but it can't and before you think it,,nothing has ever saved anyone ever but grace,,grace was around way before YAHSHUA walked the earth,,by the way do you know that JESUS is a latin name and MESSIAH was Jewish,,so ask yourself why would HE have a latin name?? tell me you haven't inherited lies when you can't even see that the very name you use to call HIM is wrong,,it is a fourth translated name from Hebrew to greek to latin to english,,,yes it matters calling HIM the right name will not save you either but at least you will not be calling THE Jewish MESSIAH by a latin name,,do you know what YAHSHUA means? if you are getting married don't you want to know the name of who you are marring?? i love you go check out my post on anti-messiah cause he is here and working hard,,i love love love love love love love you brothers and sisters and this is not about if agree with me it's if you agree with your FATHER who gave the Scriptures to a people that HE chose and in HIS own language,,yep thats right Hebrew was given to us by the FATHER,,HE wrote HIS rules in it too,,,thank you for reading i love love love love love love you!!!!!!!!! Post Reply
Cheris View Profile History	The Pre-Trib Rapture: Interpreting Scripture By Scripture Posted : 14 Jan, 2011 01:15 PM Halfback, I hope this clears up a few thing for you and proves helpful. Question: "What is the Rapture of the church?" Answer: The word �rapture� does not occur in the Bible. The concept of the rapture, though, is clearly taught in Scripture. The rapture of the church is the event in which God removes all believers from the earth in order to make way for His righteous judgment to be poured out on the earth during the tribulation period. The rapture is described primarily in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. God will resurrect all believers who have died, give them glorified bodies, and take them from the earth, along with those believers who are still alive and who will at that time also be given glorified bodies. �For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever� (1Thessalonians 4:16-17). The rapture will be instantaneous in nature, and we will receive glorified bodies at that time. �Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed�in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed� (1 Corinthians 15:51-52). The rapture is the glorious event we should all be longing for. We will finally be free from sin. We will be in God's presence forever. There is far too much debate over the meaning and scope of the rapture. This is not God�s intent. Rather, in regard to the rapture, God wants us to �encourage each other with these words� (1Thessalonians 4:18) Post Reply
View Profile History	The Pre-Trib Rapture: Interpreting Scripture By Scripture Posted : 14 Jan, 2011 06:58 PM Selah~ Post Reply
DavidSam View Profile History	The Pre-Trib Rapture: Interpreting Scripture By Scripture Posted : 15 Jan, 2011 08:15 AM Amen Halfback..I too will trust in the Lord...Satan and his lies BE Damned!! Post Reply
View Profile History	The Pre-Trib Rapture: Interpreting Scripture By Scripture Posted : 15 Jan, 2011 03:30 PM Halfback, we are to encourage each other not seek and destroy each thats for sure. Knowing prophecy with a certain belief is not even close to being the fundamental beliefs in securing our salvation! Pastors don't have enough time in their ministry to study prophecy and have to put their trust on man for interpretion. As for prophecy, Jesus us gave us special instructions in Mat 24. What or how we want to believe when all things that must happen before his return is up for us to determine by studing all the prophecy in the Bible and not just by reading it. Many prophecy teachers devote their whole life towards studying prophecy. 1/3 of the Bible is prophecy, most are fulfilled but many have not been fulfilled if you believe like myself as a futurist. Preterist believes all things were fulfilled when the 2nd temple was destroyed. My pastor is a historicalist, which believes Revelation has been fulfilled starting after the 2nd Temple was destroyed up to today. It's the easy way out to believe either of these views. Futurist is the most difficult because everthing thing must fit somewhere in a roadmap format. The most central talked about prophecy takes place in Daniel. Daniel 9:24-27 (New International Version, �2010) 24 �Seventy �sevens�[a] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish[b] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.[c] 25 �Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,[d] the ruler, comes, there will be seven �sevens,� and sixty-two �sevens.� It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two �sevens,� the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.[e] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one �seven.�[f] In the middle of the �seven�[g] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple[h] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.[i]�[j] I believe God gives us everything we need to know and understand for mankind. Post Reply
View Profile History	The Pre-Trib Rapture: Interpreting Scripture By Scripture Posted : 15 Jan, 2011 07:29 PM PreTrib, Mid Trib, Post Trip is not found in scripture. All man made. God uses caught up once in the Bible so it is one event and we do know in the scripture below it happens after the dead rises. That day is an event called The Day of the Lord. Quote from a earlier post below: The rapture of the church is the event in which God removes all believers from the earth in order to make way for His righteous judgment to be poured out on the earth during the tribulation period. This statement is describing God�s Wrath which is a separate event than the tribulation, which is referred to Satan�s Wrath. Revelation 16:1-2 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple, saying to the seven angels, "Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the wrath of God." So the first angel went and poured out his bowl on the earth; and it became a loathsome and malignant sore on the people who had the mark of the beast and who worshiped his image. This passage tells us God�s Wrath begins after the Rapture. The Day of the Lord is the event after tribulation and before God�s Wrath. I believe the PreTrib theory is not accurate, not from scripture standpoint but by placing tribulation and God�s wrath as one event instead of two separate events. The rapture is described primarily in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15: 50-54. One must understand through many scriptures that it occurs between Satan�s Wrath and God�s Wrath when he pours out the bowls. Many Christians will be forced or convince many with signs and wonders that he is Christ, we need to know when and how the antichrist will come. It�s simple Israel will be the center of attraction like gathering of saints and the 3rd Temple and many other events leading into the last seven years. Blessings to you Post Reply
Cheris View Profile History	The Pre-Trib Rapture: Interpreting Scripture By Scripture Posted : 16 Jan, 2011 11:33 AM Some nice posts have been made. My next question is isn't the removal of the church necessary to remove intercession? Like the instance of Sodom and Gomorrah if God was able to find the righteous he would not destroy the cit? Post Reply
klmartin62 View Profile History	The Pre-Trib Rapture: Interpreting Scripture By Scripture Posted : 16 Jan, 2011 12:12 PM The rapture of the church is a theory, nothing more. It has been taught in many churches as if it were fact, and that is the real danger. If you know the rapture is nothing but a theory, you will not blame God when it doesn't happen. That is the biggest danger, but there are others. Another danger is that people will be deceived by the Anti-Christ, believing that the tribulation has not started because they are still here. There are two simple things to remember, that will keep you from being deceived. 1) You will never see Christ in your flesh body, and 2) The Anti-christ is exposed before Christ returns. If you remember those two things, belief in a pre-trib rapture is harmless. God bless, Leon Post Reply

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