Legalism has been mentioned several times recently. So I have a question. What do people define legalism as?
I grew up in a denomination that many might call legalistic. I left there and now attend a evangelial verse by verse teaching church. I say that since I understand what a lot of people call legalism yet I also, since having grown up in that view, may retain some of those thoughts.
I think it would be hard to find a church that people call legalistic who will say that salvation is via works. I think that most people call someone legalistic because they have views that there are rules to be followed.
So, lets take two wide views to help discuss the matter. The bible is very clear about things like, not being drunk, not having sex before marriage, etc. Do we not alll form rules that say "I can't do that". I can't go to bar looking to get drunk and "hook up".
The bible is also pretty clear that would should do somethings. Remember the Lords supper, live by faith, not foresake the assembly. So we make rules that say "I should do this or that"
What if your brother or sister were doing all those "don'ts" and was not doing the "do's"? Would you not approach them about it? Ah! But then aren't you legalistic for telling them they shouldn't do that or should do this?
So where is the line drawn? At what point is are you doing to many of the don'ts and not of the do's?
Why is it that if you tell another christian that the bible says they shouldn't do that, or that they should do this, that you are automatically defined as a legalist?
Until a person has been broken of the Holy Spirit,and the Holy Spirit has revealed the Grace of GOD to them,they might be legalistic,and almost of no use in the body of believers.
Sort of like a wild stallion,after the horse has been properly broken,the horse can now be trained and used according to the owner.
When the Grace of GOD is revealed to them and they have been broken,then we begin seeing a new creation.
As far as Ministering to the person at the bar-watering hole-pub-corner tavern,etc.
They need to be approached by a person who has been through what they have been through.
Too many times well intentioned people try Ministering to others,yet have no understading of what that person is going through.
2Co 1:3 Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;
2Co 1:4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.
We see the outward appearances of this sin in a person,yet YHWH sees the heart.
We see the fruit and consequenses of sin,yet YHWH see the root(s).
Only ABBA is able to deal with the root problems,sometimes people are doing something and have no idea where the root of the problem is.
Once ABBA deals with the root of the problem,then the fruit will begin to die.
As far as weed,LEGALIZE the stuff.
The results would probably be:
Less drug related deaths due to someone stealing anothers weed.
Weed would become common and the price would go down,so there would be no need for dealers.
There would be no need for the amount of Polizei/Police.
The penal system would become smaller,less Judges,Lawyers/Liars,Probation officers and Parole officers.
Fear from arrest would be lifted,and people could smoke a spliff without being hassled by the Polizei.
Some politicians-Lawyers-judges-and cops are probably smoking a dube right now,and these are the one wanting to arrest others doing what they do.
well, legalism will keep you from going inside the bar and loving your friend. When people go to the bars instead of hanging out at church, it seems maybe the people in the bar are more accepting. I know the question was hypothetical but...the situation really does exist, somewhere.
Legalism is ALL over this forum, its disgusting, but people dont realize what they're saying until they are free, if ever they are free.
I also came from a church where there were lots of rules but I am so grateful that He set me free.
Thanks for the reply. Sorry, but I still think I'm missing something here. Could I ask you to elaborate a little more?
Without saying any names, and excluding the big conversation from the other day about living by the law, could you give some examples of what you see here as legalism?
Also you said you were set free from those rules. Could you give some examples of those rules? By set free, do you mean you never have to obey any of those rules?
Here is where I confused when people talk about legalism. Lets take an obvious.I would say that all of us would agree that it is wrong to live with someone (and have intimate relations) before marriage. Isn't that a rule? Don't we all think we have to abide by that? Don't we all agree that we are not supposed to go out and get drunk? Isn't that a rule? So when we talk about being set free, what do we mean?
Sorry, I know I am being persistent, but I'm rather into specifics.
I don't see the commandments that Jesus gave us as being 'legalistic'. And there is a freedom in those commandments. Don't live with your significant other before marriage. There is a blessing in not doing so. Just as there is a blessing in waiting until marriage to have sexual relations. Or the blessing one receives when truly loving their neighbor and the blessing of being obedient to Christ. What I see as legalistic are the denominations that say no caffeine, no celebrating birthdays, no wearing pants for women, no long hair for men, it's like extra curriculum. I don't see those things as either drawing one closer to Christ or driving one further from Christ, whereas the 'rules' that Christ gave us do draw us closer to Him.
When I use the word Law, I use it's broadest sense; even to judging right from wrong.
A man cannot have two masters ; you cannot serve the Law and the Spirit. As Spirit filled Christians we are not "under" the Law, it is no longer our master, at one time it was, but now it is our servant. Has the Law changed...No....but we have as Christians changed in relation to the Law when we were bought at a price from our old master and given a new Master. Our new relationship with our new Master puts us above the Law because he wrote the Law, he owns it. "Since we are above the Law are we allowed to break it?" is what everyone wants to ask! But they forget we still have a Master, who wrote the law and honors it. Naturally the next thing people say is, "then so should we honor the Law then". My answer would be to honor it as our servant and honor our Master as our Master.
Hey Shawn,I have a Biblical story about Grace and Legalism.
I call the older son-LAW,and the younger son-Grace.
Could the younger son represent the Church;
And the older son representing Israel.
Or those living according to Grace compared with those saved and still living according to law/works.
Luk 15:11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:
Luk 15:12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
Luk 15:13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
Luk 15:14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
Luk 15:15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
Luk 15:16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
Luk 15:17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
Luk 15:18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
Luk 15:19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
Luk 15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
Luk 15:21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
Luk 15:22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
Luk 15:23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
Luk 15:25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.
Luk 15:26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
Luk 15:27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
Luk 15:28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
Luk 15:29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
Luk 15:30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
Luk 15:31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
Luk 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
Good question. What is legalism? Obeying commandments? If obeying commandments is legalistic, then Jesus is legalistic, for he said " If ye love me, keep my commandments." Therefore it is very clear that keeping the commandments is an act of love. In fact this is the teaching of the OT: the reason for keeping the commandments is love (Exodus 20:6, Deuteronomy 5:10, Nehemiah 1:5, etc.) If obeying commandments is legalism, then Christianity is legalism driven by the love of God. Why should we be afraid of the word "legalism" when it is taught by Jesus. There is nothing wrong with legalism when define in such sense.
Here come the Pharisees. People always accused of Pharisee of legalism. But legalism against what? the law of man or commandments of God? what is the sin of Pharisees? Pharisees is accused of twisting the commandments of God (therefore it become commandments of man) and making a lot of new rules (Luke 11:37-53) (such as hand washing, Sabbath, etc.). What is the sin of Pharisees? Not obeying God's commandments. Therefore Pharisee is not legalistic enough. (when i am saying legalistic, i am using the Law as the standard, unless specified). Why therefore afraid of legalistic when not legalistic enough is sin?
Then there is the question of grace and faith. Grace and Law is not mutually exclusive so does faith. "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Romans 3:31
"What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid."Romans 6:15
Therefore obeying commandments does not mean that one is not living under grace.
Led by the Holy Spirit. How do you know it is the Holy Spirit not the Devil or your weak body? The only way to find out is to refer back to the bible, the Law.
When we read the Scripture that Yeshua speaks about kep my commandments,He does not say to OBEY my commandments.
That has been told by so many men that when the people read that Scripture,they almost automatically read 'Obey my commandments'.
Here are the two Scriptures talking about this.
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
If you notice the English 'KEEP' word is used in both Scripture.
The Greek word from where get the word 'KEEP' is the word
"tereo"
This Greek word does not necessarily imply obedience.
Greek 5083
τηρέω
tēreō
tay-reh'-o
From τηρός teros (a watch; perhaps akin to G2334); to guard (from loss or injury, properly by keeping the eye upon; and thus differing from G5442, which is properly to prevent escaping; and from G2892, which implies a fortress or full military lines of apparatus), that is, to note (a prophecy; figuratively to fulfil a command); by implication to detain (in custody; figuratively to maintain); by extension to withhold (for personal ends; figuratively to keep unmarried): - hold fast, keep (-er), (ob-, pre-, re) serve, watch.
If the Scripture had been interpreted and written English as they are in Greek,we might have a different body of believers in America..Oh i forgot the HOMELAND.
Again the word 'KEEP' from the book of Revelation 3:10
Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Notice the words 'kept' and 'keep',these two English words are the same Greek word 'Tereo'.
If the Greek word Tereo is translated as Obey,here is how Revelation 3:10 would read in English.
Because you have obeyed the word of my patience,i also will obey you from the hour of temptation.
The So-called pastors in America (ooopss my bad,The Homeland)tell the sheeple,that this is saying Yeshua will take us out,rather rapture us and the church will not be going through the end times tribulation.
Too bad people do not investigate things as the Bereans did with Paul.
People are quick to strain out gnats,yet are willing to swallow camels.
