Someone stated, "We must be baptized in a "watery grave" as an outward acknowledgment of both the death penalty We have brought on ourself by disobeying the law of our Creator and our willingness to let the old self die."
I wonder where the writer of the above statement came up with we must be baptized in a watery grave as an outward acknowledgment or have the willingness to let the old self die? One statement made is that we have brought on ourselves the death penalty by disobeying the laws of our Creator. I don't meant to be judgmental but here are two ambiguous statements, one about a nonexistent baptism in a watery grave, an acknowledgment of death penalty we have brought upon ourselves by disobeying the laws of our Creator.
I wonder where the author got the idea of baptism in a watery grave since there is no such thing mentioned in scripture?
Has the author of this statement come up with a new doctrine, perhaps a new religion? Since this is not found in God's word; baptism in a watery grave would have to come under the heading of Man's philosophic religion with a slant towards the tradition of water baptism. God's word states there is only one baptism, {Eph. 4:5}.
God warns us in His word that when a doctrine doesn't agree with all of His word then it's not from Him but rather from man's philosophies. Where else could it come from if it doesn't agree with all of God's word?
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
If I understand the author when he stated, we brought the death penalty on ourselves by disobeying the law. What law, the Law of Moses or the one stipulation God imposed on Adam and Eve not to pick the fruit for eternal life and the tree of Knowledge?
The writer stated, " God�s Word tells us: "Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life" (Romans 6:3�4)." I believe that was a beautiful description of spiritual baptism as found in Colossians 2:12 that reads as follows:
Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of--the operation of God,--who hath raised him from the dead. {Dashes are mine since I can't underline}
The writer stated, " A Covenant with Our Creator
So when We are called or drawn to become a true Christian, We need to be willing to "bury" the old selfish self in baptism. Frankly, only God can grant the real repentance we need to fulfill His will (Acts 11:18). But if He is, in fact, opening our mind to grasp what true Christianity is all about�and calling us to be in the first resurrection�then we must utterly surrender our will to the Creator. We must sincerely and bitterly repent of having carelessly gone our own way all these years�and repent of continually breaking and smashing God�s Holy law in both our thoughts and our actions. Real repentance means to be profoundly sorry�so sorry that we turn around and go the other way! We must, then, make a covenant with our Creator not only to stop breaking the Ten Commandments but�with the power of God�s promised Holy Spirit�to start keeping them as a way of life."
All of the above speaks of man having the ability to save himself by making a covenant with God and stop breaking the Ten Commandments.
All the above is contrary to God's word. God says we are all born in sin and are cursed from birth, so how it is possible for us to bargain with God or satisfy God's court with the keeping of the law when it condemns us?
Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
God says no man is justified by the law.
Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
The answer to being justified by faith is found in this next verse.
Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Salvation is so simple, we must only believe what Christ did for us on the cross to be justified by God.
John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Archimedes, good question and a very fair one. The answer is very clear and easy to give.
The pillar and ultimate to all truth is Jesus Christ. He and he alone has all the answer. He would have to since he created it all. Also his word is the same as the Lord, they are one and the same and His word is not open to interpretation. Hi Truth when properly understood from the Holy Spirit liberates us from man's philosophies.
John 8:32 �And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
God's truth can be understood and is not confusing if we allow the holy spirit to teach us.
1 Corinthians 14:33 �For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
When there is confusion in religion it is because there is envy and strife that causes evil. There is no evil or confusion in God's truth.
James 3:16 �For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
17 �But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
18 �And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
A good example of the confusion and division in man's sectarian religion if because of private interpenetration that results from exactly what God says: envy and strife that results in many false doctrines. A good example would be water baptism.
God's word says there is only one baptism Ephs. 4:5, and God is one the one who performs the operation so that would have to be spiritual baptism since there is only one for today.
Colossians 2:12 �Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Even Paul realized the Lord had changed the order of things and that water baptism, a physical ordinance was abolished along with the rest of them.
Those who advocate for the physical ordinances ignore God's word about one baptism so as not to blow their doctrine out of the water.
Paul was most zealous of the ordinances as any practicing Jew could be but he ceased from it after only baptizing a few.
1 Corinthians 1:14 ��I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 �Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 �And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17 �For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 �For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 �For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 �Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 �For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
Any student of scripture should know if water baptism was still in effect, Paul would have been one of the first to continue in it. Like Paul said in verse 21, that the wisdom of this world have not known God.
If we truly believe Christ died for our sins, we cease from our own works and rest in Christ 24/7.
Hebrews 4:9 �There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 �For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 ��Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
If we believe and enter into his rest, we cease from our own works. If we believe not then those who haven't continue in their own works.
Hebrews 9:10 �Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
Please notice in the above verse the Jews stood in meats, drinks and divers washings, and divers washings would include all physical baptism.
The time of reformation was given by Paul.
Ephesians 2:15 �Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Its all right there in black and white but if a person rejects it as God's truth then there is no way they can enter into His rest.
The only way truth can be given and be in complete agreement with all of God's word is to believe the Lord when He says he has only one faith, {not the faith of our choice} One Lord, {Jesus Christ} one baptism {not two}.
God's word is most important over everything else for truth, because the Lord has magnified his word about his name! That makes His word the ultimate, the pillar of all truth.
Psalms 138:2 �I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
God tells us His word is not open to interpretation.
2 Peter 1:20 �Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
I believe you have a message somewhere in that post. I just got lost around the 42 paragraph and had to find some aspirin for my headache. :ROFL:
Seriously, it appears that you know your Scripture, but if you could just be a little less verbose.
Also I don't think that Scripture would agree with your answer about what is the Pillar of Truth. Scripture is what you Hold as the Final Court of Appeal...isn't it? What Scripture says ends all conversation...right? If Scripture says it is so...then...by Golly!
So, if anyone else has their opinion as to what the answer might be...I'm listening.
I hope you do get back with an answer. I think this one will surprise you. The answer is in Scripture. Perhaps not the answer that you all want to hear but it is in Scripture.
I think Scripture is Clear about Water Baptism with The Holy Spirit. Also The Church practiced it from the very begining.
As for Scripture:
"Except a man be born of WATER and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God." John 3:5.
I believe this speaks to being Baptized.
1 Peter 3:20-21 (New International Version)
20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this
water symbolizes baptism
that now saves you also�not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[a] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Again...Baptism...that SAVES YOU!
On the day of Pentecost, Peter preached,
Acts 2:38 (New International Version)
38 Peter replied, �Repent and
be baptized,
every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
To the Gentiles peter said,
Acts 10:47
47 �Surely no one can stand in the way of their being
baptized with water.
They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.�
(NIV)
Acts 10:48
48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.
Not one scripture you quoted says so. Yes you need more.
Btw; " born of water and of Spirit" --- in context > Jesus is speaking to 'Nic' about being born again. Nic even brings up going back into the womb. So 'water' can easily be the physical birth. But even if it isn't it doesn't matter. Baptism is a act of obedience, it does not save. Those who have been filled with the Spirit will be baptized if they have the opprotunity. Those who refuse baptism are most likely not filled with the Spirit therefore not saved.
Baptism does not by itself "Saves". It is God through Jesus that Saves.
Why did The Church believe (and still does)differently then you do?
I'm still waiting for your answer to my question about
"The Pillar and Foundation of TRUTH".
Do I sense hesitation? This Scripture is one that Pastors will avoid like HE double L because they have to gyrate like tops to explain it.
Just like your explaination of "Water and Spirit". The AnaBaptist were the First to Break away from the Churches Teaching about Baptism ( many years later many more followed and changed it to their liking and understanding and started their own churches).
Geeze guys what is all this" mysterious" stuff. Pillar of truth? 3 baptisms? Are you trying to build suspense? Just come out and say it; I am feeling properly supenseful!
It's right there in Scripture! Is it possible that whomever is teaching you has never shown you this verse? Is it possible that you've not read the "Complete Bible"? Or just the passages that "fit".
There is only One Truth...One Interpretation of Scripture. Scripture and God do not "play games with Words". Give it one more shot..ask your Pastor or maybe someone else here can find it?
