The prayers themselves tell who to pray them over, the wicked, and the enemy. I want to be in alignment with God and if He says He will crush the wicked and cut off the enemy I will pray for those things to come about. Just like Danial read the prophet Jeremiah and prayed for God's plan to be fulfilled. He knew God would do what He said regardless of his prayer but he prayed, "Yes LORD, let it be as you have said" Danial lined His prayers with what God had reveled to him from his reading of scriptures. I read the wicked and the enemy will be destroyed I pray, "Yes LORD, let it be so!"
Another group that would be considered the wicked enemy I have often wonder if we should be praying the imprecatory prayers over, are the heretics on TV promoting the prosperity gospel, that is no gospel at all. They use to burn heretics at the stake because the thinking was it is better for one to die than for them to lead thousands to hell. In this case it is millions they are leading hell.
Ah, but in this day of tolerance it would for sure step on a few toes here if we was to start naming names and point out the heresy they spew from the pulpit.
�People tell me judge not lest ye be judged. I always tell them, twist not scripture lest ye be like satan.�
Well, just ask yourself the good ol' question, "what would Jesus do"? Yes, the wicked will burn for their sins at the end, but I do not think that we get to be judge and jury on this earth. The bible says that we should not worry about the wicked people, even if they persecute and kill us. They will have their reward and we will have ours. Our job is to live a Christ-like life, and Jesus didn't go around punishing people. He taught, He healed, He led by example. He didn't condemn, He didn't abuse. When Peter tried to defend Him and cut off someone's ear, someone who was coming to take Him to His death, He took a moment to heal the man before being led off to be crucified. We know God the Father by the example that Jesus gave us. Jesus told us to be perfect and love our enemies like God does. God didn't smite the pharisees for leading His chosen people off the path. Jesus didn't pray for them to suffer and die. So why do we get to? I don't think it's "ok" for us to go around cursing groups of people we don't even know. Whats the point? God will take care of it either way. Why usurp His position or tell Him what to do? Why do you think you know who is going to hell and who isn't, and why are you praying for other human beings, who are the same as you, to die/suffer? I wonder if anyone has ever been "cursed" by a "Christian" and then converted later? What do you do then?
"Oh...I wanted you to die and burn in hell, but we're cool now. Sorry for presuming to know the will of God. My bad."
However, I do believe that we should protect and defend other people. Anyone that kills other people with no regard and for no good reason, should be fought to the death. I don't know if I could kill someone in "selfish-defense" without feeling guilty, but I know I definitely could if they were trying to kill someone else. I wouldn't even hesitate for a second, and I would feel no guilt whatsoever.
I think it's kinda funny that you guys are hard-core "New Testament" people when it comes to keeping/not keeping the law, but you still want us to be living in the Old Testament when it comes to how we should treat other people, when Jesus obviously had the opposite view for us to be following.
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Matthew 5
38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
41And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
The only people we get to judge are the ones inside the church. The rest is God's job. Our job is to witness to them. Cursing/crusades/witch hangings/book burning are not effective forms of witnessing about God's character.
1 Cor. 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11But now I have written unto you not to keep company, *if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator*, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
�Mat 23:13 But Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
Mat 23:15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
Mat 23:16 Woe to you, blind guides, who say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
Mat 23:23 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
Mat 23:25 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
Mat 23:27 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
Mat 23:29 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
That is Jesus cursing them seven times.
1Cor 16:22 If anyone has no love for the Lord, let him be accursed. Our Lord, come!
Gal 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
Gal 5:13 I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!
Revelation 6:10 They cried out with a loud voice, "O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"
What they all have in common is that the curse is called on the enemies of God not of man. Also in one of the Psalms after the curse it is asked that may this lead to their salvation.�
Sorry for the delay in responding, I had to do a little studying on these verses to make sure of their meaning hermeneutically.
The seven woes are not imprecatory prayers. They do not invoke evil, nor are they a curse. They are statements made to the Pharisees of the sorrow they would have.
1 Cor 16:22 is also not an imprecatory prayer but another statement. And wasn't even made by Jesus but by Paul.
Gal 1:8 another statement not an imprecatory prayer by Paul
Gal 5:13 is quoted wrong it's Gal 5:12 Another statement not an imprecatory prayer.
Rev 6:10 Is a question not an imprecatory prayer
If Jesus would have made an imprecatory prayer the action would have happened then an there. As when he told the tree to wither or when he silenced the storm (also not imprecatory prayers). If Jesus would have made an imprecatory prayer it would have gone against His teachings of turning the other check, and to love enemies and bless them. Jesus did away with the imprecatory prayers in the Psalms when He made these statements.
Were these prayers the will of GOD,or the will of man.
1John 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
1John 5:15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
Notice in this Scrpiture who are James and John wanting to call an imprecatory prayer on,The Samaritans.
What is Yeshua/Jesus response.
Luk 9:52 And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.
Luk 9:53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.
Luk 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
Luk 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
This Scripture might hurt some..I find this to be very difficult.
The perfection/maturity spoken of here is in Love,Love of the discples of Yeshua is to be mature..
Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
How did Yeshua pray as He was crucified
Father kill those sinners,destroy them,break their teeth..
Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
All of this goes completely against my nature,my nature is to fight.
Yeshua His nature is Love,yet that will not be the nature that will be seen when He returns..
Isa 59:15 Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.
Isa 59:16 And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.
Isa 59:17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke.
Isa 59:18 According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence.
Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
Joh 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
1Corin 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Coin 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Corin 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1Corin 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth:
All of This is only possible in Yeshua.
Shalom and Chesed:
St.George
ps:
Just because there is not direct teaching about something,does not ean that the Lord leaves us to our own understanding.
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Pro 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Pro 3:7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
Proverbs 3:8 It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.
Luk 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.
1 Cor. 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11But now I have written unto you not to keep company, *if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator*, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
Paul is saying that he didn't tell the Corinthians to avoid the sinners of the world, because that would mean they would have no one to witness the faith to. He is explaining to them that what he meant was that they should avoid a "brother/fellow christian" that is choosing to live in open sin. We are not even supposed to eat with that kind of hypocritical christian. He is saying that we don't have any business judging the wicked, our job is to manage the church and to witness to the world. God will judge the people that are outside of the church. We should just avoid the people that say they are christian, but are drunkards/idolaters/etc.
I think we have absolutely no grounds to tell/think someone is unsaved or too wicked or going to hell, because we don't know. I'm sure there have been many Christians that were on the steep slide into a sin-filled death and were saved by God. Some even at the last minute. Some of them might even be on these forums right now. So why in the world would we pray for them to be lost or dead when God could be working on their hearts? My dad was one of those wicked people. Drug crazed suicidal fornicator. Now he's a changed man. Completely the other way. God-fearing, family-loving, hard-working....and he wasn't changed because someone was praying that he would suffer and die. One of my good friends was the same way and if you knew him before, you'd never recognize him now. So lets apply the same principle to a Muslim terrorist, and let God worry about whether or not He's done working on them. This all reminds me of the parable of the unmerciful servant...the one that received great mercy and forgiveness but was not willing to have mercy on others.
You missed the point about the crusades. The crusades were defensive wars, fought in response to Muslim slaughter. Remember that Egypt, Jerusalem, Asia Minor were all lands led by Christian governments and had millions of Christians living there -- until Muslims took over the countries, raped the women, murdered any who fought back, and made the rest into slaves. (To say nothing of the destruction of churches, art, and knowledge. The library at Alexandria held books that we have ZERO copies of today. Muslims burned it to the ground.) Christians did nothing for what was it, 100 years? So the crusades showed one thing: that Christians are verrryyy slow to defend themselves.
lol...if it was a hundred years later I highly doubt you could classify it as a defensive war. You're silly:laugh:. That'd be like the English attacking the US 100 years later and claiming it was self-defense.
