Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
There are some that try to use these scriptures to support a whole movement and unbiblical doctrine.
In coming to the word we need to always be mindful, that the word of God is the Truth, it is without falsehood.
There are so many facts written in the word of God to the integrity of God's word.
John 17:17 � Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
The scriptures are used in Romans to say that the father, will withhold mercy from whom he wants, but when we study scriptures on mercy, we see an entirely different picture.
Nu 14:18 The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.
De 7:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers:
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Ho 2:23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.
Jon 2:8 They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.
Mt 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Mt 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
I would encourage all to find any time in the word that the father denied anyone that come unto him for mercy.
I think the Bible is clear unfortunately most people will go to Hell simply because they dont believe and dont believe God would send them there for sin Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Just to make a staetment Calvanism is wicked obviously predestination came from John Calvin it is unbiblical I believe God chooses us but its up to us through our free will to accept or deny if we deny Christ, Christ will deny us before the father Matthew 10:33
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. And yes God predesdens us he knows who will be saved and who will not
The verses you posted in Romans are key scriptures for Calvinists. And since I've already read enough of what you've written to see that you think it's 100% antibiblical, I made the connection between the verses and what you were talking about. Sorry if I jumped to the wrong conclusion.
And as far as God chosing man- God has always chosen man, but man never choses God without God drawing the man to Himself. God chose Noah; Noah did naught but respond. God chose Abram; Abram did naught but respond. God chose Isaac; Isaac did naught but respond. God chose Jacob; Jacob did naught but respond. God also chose Saul, Samuel, Israel (the nation of), David, Solomon, the 12 disciples, Barnabas, and Paul. He called them; HE appointed them. To think that God does not do the same today, when, ya know scripture says that God does not change (He may change His method of dealing with MAN, but the character of God and His reasons remain) He's repeated done so in the past.
God chosing some to bring to salvation does not mean He also choses those who go to hell. That's double predestination, and that's entirely different that predestination, although those exact verses in Romans are the ones that some ultraCalvinists use to teach double predestination. Nor does the fact that God choses man before man can chose to follow God speak anything at all negatively about God's mercy. He is merciful to every last person on earth. He, by rights, should wipe us and our depravity off the face of the earth.. and yet He refrains because He does not delight in the death of the wicked, nor does He desire any man to perish. But the truth is, every last one of us deserve to perish- so if a man does go to Hell it is not God who placed him there- but the man himself.
And no, that does not work against man in any way.
I believe in any topic you discuss, should always be in light of the word of God, light never agrees with darkness.
Now as far as who God chooses it is very clear in his word that is always true, and without confusion.
The will of the father and the son is revealed to us in the word of God.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us�ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
It is not any clearer than in this scripture, concerning the lost, the will of the father towards the lost is very clear.
Mr 2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Thank God he made it clear as far as who is eligible.
Ro 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Now as far as Calvinism, no I do not oppose Calvinist, but the totally corrupt doctrine that can send people to hell because it is not the truth and thus produces doubt, instead of faith.
Faith never comes from the doctrines of men, only the word of God.
I believe in any topic you discuss, should always be in light of the word of God, light never agrees with darkness.
Now as far as who God chooses it is very clear in his word that is always true, and without confusion.
The will of the father and the son is revealed to us in the word of God.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us�ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
It is not any clearer than in this scripture, concerning the lost, the will of the father towards the lost is very clear.
Mr 2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Thank God he made it clear as far as who is eligible.
Ro 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Now as far as Calvinism, no I do not oppose Calvinist, but the totally corrupt doctrine that can send people to hell because it is not the truth and thus produces doubt, instead of faith.
Faith never comes from the doctrines of men, only the word of God.
ok... How does believing that man is totally depraved and thus unable to come to GOd on his own contradict scripture (thus making it a man made doctrine) and thus sending men to hell?
How does believing that God's election is unconditional upon anything that we do (unmerited in any way) a man made doctrine that could lead men to hell?
How is believing that God died to save only those He chose a man made doctrine and how is that capable of sending men to hell? Doesn't Jesus tell us that He died for His sheep?? (This is always the part of the TULIP I struggle with the most... John 3:16 always rings in my head. But aside from that, how does believing this equate to sending someone to hell?)
How does believing that God's grace is irresistable in those that He calls or choses a man made doctrine and capable of sending men to hell?
How is perserverance of the saints a man-made doctrine and how can that potentially send people to hell?
Well, I'm not sure about all of it, but a lot of it may cause people to give up/lose hope. Maybe you're wrong, and the holy spirit moves on someones heart but they think that there is no way that they could be saved because they've lived so horribly that they think it's proof that God didn't "choose" them...or maybe a person that has been "saved" feels no need to walk in Jesus's footsteps and fight certain habits/sins because "I'm already saved and there's nothing I have to do". It just seems like this belief may "give rest to the wicked" and lure the "saved" into a false sense of security. Whether they were saved or not already would be a dangerous guessing game if there is a possibility that you're wrong. I think that God moves on everyone's hearts, He spreads seed everywhere, He wants all men everywhere to be saved, He doesn't want any to perish, He wants everyone to come to a knowledge of the truth. He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, He wants them to turn from their evil ways and live. I just think it's pretty clear. Anyone that opens the door will be saved, etc...
