Biblically:Is a woman qualified to being an Elder-Pastor-Bishop-Overseer..
Posted : 22 Jul, 2010 01:18 PM
Biblically:Is a woman qualified to being an Elder-Pastor-Bishop-Overseer..
There are many women mentioned in the Bible�All with much Trust and Faith�None are mentioned as being in the position of Elder-Pastor..( Christian ) or Bishop-Deacon-..( Roman Catholic ) These Titles are not Hebrew/Israel/Jewish and I have found no mention in the Bible of Women in such positions with these Titles�
Below are some referances and examples taken from my Archives� Christian Answers / Bible Encyclopedia / All Scripture�
1~ Deborah ~ Judges 4~5 Deborah is one of the heroic women of history. She was one of the most talented women of the Bible � a wife, mother, prophetess, judge, poetess, singer, and political leader. Her life is a wonderful illustration of the power that womanhood has to influence society for good. The great influence that Deborah possessed is evident in the fact that all Israel came to her for counsel and judgment.*** Over Seer�YES !!! Elder-Pastor / Bishop-Deacon ?�No !!! These Terms are Christian and not Hebrew/Israel/Jewish�No one knows for sure�
2~ Esther ~ Ester 2:15 Esther appears in the Bible as a woman of deep piety, faith, courage, patriotism, and caution, combined with resolution; a dutiful daughter to her adopted father, docile and obedient to his counsels, and anxious to share the king�s favor with him for the good of the Jewish people. There must have been a singular grace and charm in her aspect and manners, since �she obtained favor in the sight of all them that looked upon her.
That she was raised up as an instrument in the hand of God to avert the destruction of the Jewish people, and to afford them protection and forward their wealth and peace in their captivity, is also manifest from the Scripture account.*** Over Seer�YES !!! Elder-Pastor / Bishop-Deacon ?�No !!! These Terms are Christian and not Hebrew/Israel/Jewish�No one knows for sure�
3~ Mary Magdalene, i.e., Mary of Magdala, a town on the western shore of the Lake of Tiberius. She is for the first time noticed in Luke 8:3 as one of the women who � Ministered � to Christ of their substance.� Their motive was that of gratitude for deliverances he had wrought for them. Out of Mary were cast seven demons. Gratitude to her great Deliverer prompted her to become his follower. ( THESE WOMEN ) accompanied him also on his last journey to Jerusalem ( Matt 27:55; Mark 15:41; Luke 23:55 ). They stood near the cross. There Mary remained till all was over, and the body was taken down and laid in Joseph's tomb.*** Ministering�YES !!!�Witnessing�YES !!!� Elder-Pastor / Bishop-Deacon ?�No !!! These Terms are Christian and not Hebrew/Israel/Jewish�No one knows for sure�
Again, in the earliest dawn of the first day of the week she, with Salome and Mary the mother of James ( Matt 28:1; Mark 16:2 ), came to the sepulcher [tomb], bringing with them sweet spices, that they might anoint the body of Jesus. They found the sepulcher empty, but saw the �vision of angels� ( Matt 28:5 ). She hastens to tell Peter and John, who were probably living together at this time ( John 20:1~2 ), and again immediately returns to the sepulcher. There she lingers thoughtfully, weeping at the door of the tomb. The risen Lord appears to her, but at first she knows him not. His utterance of her name �Mary� recalls her to consciousness, and she utters the joyful, reverent cry, �Rabboni.� She would fain cling to him, but he forbids her, saying, �Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father.� This is the last record regarding Mary of Magdala, who now returned to Jerusalem. *** Witnessing�YES !!! Elder-Pastor / Bishop-Deacon ?�No !!! These Terms are Christian and not Hebrew/Israel/Jewish�No one knows for sure�
Personal note ~ Also�The Samaritan Women at the Well�She ran to tell people of the LORD Jesus�*** Witnessing�Yes !!!�Ministering/Eder-Pastor/Bishop-Deacon ?�Not mentioned so know one knows for sure what happened later�Some Women today such as Joyce Meyers and Paula White do process a Title of �Pastor��These Women � Minister � to those�Men and Women that Seek the living WORD Jesus*��They Speak & Teach Scriptural TRUTH and if the Good LORD has called Them for His Purpose and Glory�well�its His Call�and I see No Reason or Purpose to Discredit the Works of such Women called by the All Mighty GOD�Lean not unto Our Own Understanding�Be ever ready to Accept the Will of GOD�xo
Biblically:Is a woman qualified to being an Elder-Pastor-Bishop-Overseer..
Posted : 22 Jul, 2010 02:38 PM
Well, then I guess it's just a confusion of terms. In our era, a pastor is the spiritual figure-head/leader of a church like elders were in Paul's time. I do not believe that there is biblical evidence that allows women to be "spiritual leaders"....whether it's part of the curse or whatever...the bible says men are the spiritual head of the family and the spiritual leadership in the church. Anyway...it's just a question we'll have to ask God, but I think He knows best and I think the bible is clear about it. I think there are a lot of "traditions" that like to downplay a woman's role in spiritual things too much though.
Biblically:Is a woman qualified to being an Elder-Pastor-Bishop-Overseer..
Posted : 22 Jul, 2010 03:04 PM
Friends Jude does have a good point here. A leader in the church is also a prophetess. Philup had 7 daughters that where prophets. Anna who met Jesus at his birth.A prophet has the same power as a Paster. They are a church leader.
Godsjude used Deborah.Deborah was the leader of Israel.
Women are less likely to be leaders, it is not as common. It has nothing to do with men being lazy. I can find no verse that says it is a sin or against Gods will for a woman to be a pastor or prophet.
For those of you who say you oppose Women, did God not use a donkey once?????? So a donkey said Gods word.God said he would haverockspraise him if no one else did.
Now will you say you will not listen to a donkey who speaks Gods word??????:ROFL:
At one time in america only white men could be preachers.
Before 1865, now color people can also be Pastors.
Who are we to tell God who he can use??????
God can change the rules when ever he wants to.
Are you impling he, GOD has to ask us to our opinions if women can be Pastors.
Biblically:Is a woman qualified to being an Elder-Pastor-Bishop-Overseer..
Posted : 22 Jul, 2010 03:37 PM
Good points Mark...
I believe a Women is Quailfied as a OverSeer under the Spiritual Head of Her Husband...after all She/Woman was created as a " Helpmeet "...and IMO that meanis...Help the Man " Meet " His Obligations & Duty's...not jus Mate...:winksmile:
Dennis...I also agrre with what you shared...Its not up to me or anyone else what or who GOD chooses for His purpose...:excited:
SOooo...where is Trucker/George..??? I wana see the Scriptures he shares bout Qualifications or Not...being Messianic...maybe if he would be so kind...he can clarify for some of us as to how the Hebrew/Israel/Jewish peoples interpret the scripture and view these types of important questions...xo
Biblically:Is a woman qualified to being an Elder-Pastor-Bishop-Overseer..
Posted : 22 Jul, 2010 03:56 PM
P.S....Oops a Doodle...I was prompted to look at Georges profile...I dont know why I thought George was Messianic...Hummmm...maybe cuz he refers to Jesus as Yashua in his postings...anywho...ima so sorry...:winksmile:...xo
Biblically:Is a woman qualified to being an Elder-Pastor-Bishop-Overseer..
Posted : 23 Jul, 2010 08:15 AM
Hello everyone:
Please forgive me for writing much about this,Yet when finished you will understand
why the length of this posting was necessary.
I see there is division on this subject of whether a woman is Biblically qualified to being an Elder-Pastor-Bishop-Oversser.
First let me post the following Scripture for backround:
Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
I hope some of the Brethren which are scholarly will help with this.
The Genesis Scripture here is not a Blessing as some would understand this,They say OHHH Look at this, the woman will desire her husband,is this not great....
Wrong,within the Hebrew understanding this is a curse which would read:You desire will be for your husbands position;
Is this not what we are witnessing in every part of society world wide,even within the body of Yeshua.
For those of us wanting women to be ruling or watching over them,these are not understanding the Lords Word, or His Will.
The following Hebrew word is the word, to rule;from Strongs Hebrew Concordance
H4910
משׁל
mâshal
maw-shal'
A primitive root; to rule: - (have, make to have) dominion, governor, X indeed, reign, (bear, cause to, have) rule (-ing, -r), have power.
The Women mentioned by Jude were indeed used of the Lord in those particular positions and times,yet this is not the
normal way in which the Lord has women.
I am in no way belittleing women,a woman has a big place in the body,society and the home,yet there is a place
for men and a place for women.
There are distinction of roles and authority.
One Scripture people use to justify the woman as Elder-Pastor is the following:
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Those that use this Scripture do not take this Word in the context:
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
The context of the Scripture is about Salvation,Not Eldership-Pastor.
There is no way this Word can be applied to women being Elders-Pastors,without twisting and misapplyting the Scriptures.
As far as the Scriptures pertaining to prophetesses and the such,Let us remember that there is only 2 offices
in the body that have Biblical qualifications that have to be seen,and understood,and that by the body of believers.
These are the qualifications:Elders (Plural) and Deacons (Plural).
1Ti 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
1Ti 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
1Ti 3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
1Ti 3:10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
1Ti 3:11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
1Ti 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
1Ti 3:13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
The two offices are for men and men only,a woman cannot have these qualifications,
for she cannot be the husband of one wife..At least not in the Lords creation.
If anyone has a problem with this,please take this up with the Lord:
These are His qualifications,His Offices,His Word,will and Body.
Personally,I believe any woman in these postions are in Sin,unless she is just amongst other women.
The body allowing this to happen is in sin,especially if this is happening with men in attendance.
The men allowing this to happen should confess this sin,and trust the Lord to remove the woman and replace her with the qualified men..
Remember the Word of the Lord:
Act 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
Biblically:Is a woman qualified to being an Elder-Pastor-Bishop-Overseer..
Posted : 23 Jul, 2010 08:49 AM
Friends a few New testament churches were left in the hands of women. Lydia was such a woman, so was Tabitha/
in the beginning not all churches had male leaders. with only women and childernin these small churches the women were the leader of that church.It was rare but when the churchwas beginning and some of these were converts from paganism.They met in secret and the women were pastors on occassion.
This is just early church history.Still waiting for the bible verse that says it is a sin for a woman to be a pastor.I can not find it.
Biblically:Is a woman qualified to being an Elder-Pastor-Bishop-Overseer..
Posted : 23 Jul, 2010 08:49 AM
:applause:...Thank you so much George...the scriptures you have shared are spot on the mark...and confirms in the WORD through Timothy that Women are NOT to be in positions of Elder-Pastors, Bishops, Deacons...( Also see the terms Bishop & Deacon....I missed that while Studying...:winksmile:...thank you...I get the Dingle Berry Award taday...:goofball: )
Anywho...So...in tadays times there is diffinately a very fine line here...My 2 questions now are...
Do Women as these actually fall under these Titles ? or are they Actually Teachers that Minister ?...and How can it be SIN ta share the Gospel being a Woman...? These are very serious concerns for some Gals here an there...any input ?...anyone...?...xo
Biblically:Is a woman qualified to being an Elder-Pastor-Bishop-Overseer..
Posted : 23 Jul, 2010 03:32 PM
Dennis:
I see you have two woman whom you say are mentioned in the scriptures as Elders-Pastors.
I have posted the only places in Scripture these women are mentioned.
Lydia:
Act 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
Act 16:15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.
Act 16:40 And they went out of the prison, and entered into the house of Lydia: and when they had seen the brethren, they comforted them, and departed.
Tabitha/Dorcas:
Act 9:36 Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas: this woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did.
Act 9:37 And it came to pass in those days, that she was sick, and died: whom when they had washed, they laid her in an upper chamber.
Act 9:38 And forasmuch as Lydda was nigh to Joppa, and the disciples had heard that Peter was there, they sent unto him two men, desiring him that he would not delay to come to them.
Act 9:39 Then Peter arose and went with them. When he was come, they brought him into the upper chamber: and all the widows stood by him weeping, and shewing the coats and garments which Dorcas made, while she was with them.
Act 9:40 But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and prayed; and turning him to the body said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up.
Act 9:41 And he gave her his hand, and lifted her up, and when he had called the saints and widows, presented her alive.
Act 9:42 And it was known throughout all Joppa; and many believed in the Lord.
I do not see the Scriptures saying these women were Elders or Pastors.
Could we be reading into the Word something that is not there.
Also Dennis;The Definition of the Word Sin;Is to miss thew mark.
The mark that is missed by the people and the womean assuming the Lords will is for women to be over men;The missed mark is the word of the Lord in 1st Timothy 3:1-10.
The confession is that of violating the Word and will of the Lord.
Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Biblically:Is a woman qualified to being an Elder-Pastor-Bishop-Overseer..
Posted : 23 Jul, 2010 05:08 PM
I believe a woman can speak truths from the bible to anyone. Minister, preach, teach, sermonize, etc....they're all just terms to describe the methods to spread the gospel. I think that the verses in the bible that people use to keep women "silent" were for a specific problem in a specific church. It was in the context of people trying to pass off vain babblings as the gift of tongues. I believe women can do anything except the executive positions in the church...and they could probably do them too...but God has a reason.
