Why is it that in the brief time I have put in searching through our rich church history I can not find anywhere tongues being described as the charismatics define it today? In every instance where it is even mentioned, and that is in very few places, it is defined as another language not known to the speaker, such as Spanish, French, German, etc.
It was not until 1909 some people in California started acting weird and speaking in strange babbling that the Pentecostal movement got started. Most of the time the wacky far out stuff we see today iWhy is it that in the brief time I have put in searching through our rich church history I can not find anywhere tongues being described as the charismatics define it today? In every instance where it is even mentioned, and that is in very few places, it is defined as another language not known to the speaker, such as Spanish, French, German, etc.
It was not until 1909 some people in California started acting weird and speaking in strange babbling that the Pentecostal movement got started. Most of the time the wacky far out stuff we see today is associated with the charismatic churches or preachers. Why do we not see this gift in our church history for 1800 years and now we have people who will vehemently fight a bitter fight for this belief?
Personally I do not take the definition of tongues describe by some here or by the charismatic churches. Remember speaking in tongues as a strange babbling is something that does happen in satanic worship. And the devil does disguise himself as an angel of light and is deceiving many. Oh but of course all those here on the forums are to spiritual for the devil to deceive so that can't be what I am suggesting here.
There are 5 sources speaking in tongues can come from
1. The Holy Spirit and I don't believe that is happening the way people describe it, every time I hear about it it sounds unbiblical anyway.
2. Demonic. My personal pick for what influences most people.
3. Showmanship or entertainment. This I have seen and heard and it made me laugh so I guess it was entertaining. But yet sad because of the deceived souls falling for it.
4. A lunatic. Some are just plan out of their mind or acting like they are.
5. Ignorance. People want so badly to be a part of something they think they need to do this to be accepted so the play it out.
I know this will start a fire storm and I am not going to argue this point. I have studied Acts 2 and know about the Holy Spirit and things that went on all through the book, I have done my research and am convinced of what the Holy Spirit in my studies has reveled to me on this subject. I want to ask if you are a person who thinks they speak in tongues try not wearing it on your sleeve as a badge here. It is not very pretty to those who think you are wrong or just plan weird.
Now this brings me to what I have always wondered. I hear all the time about essentials and non essentials to salvation. As long as we have the essentials right we can be wrong on the non essentials and still call each other brother. Really? Is that true? Is that biblical? How much can someone be wrong and still be right? Is there not but 1 truth? I mean hey I could be wrong on the tongues issue but that probably means I am wrong about a lot of other important doctrines as well if I am using the same hermeneutic principles else where as I used on my study of tongues. Or vise versa if I am right about tongues and I did use the proper hermeneutical principles to know this, then those that are wrong could be wrong on other important issues as well.
Like I have said before PJ describes a god I can not find in the bible. His constant attacks on the character and nature of the God I see and know from the Bible and against those who follow God are blasphemous at best and heretical at worst. Because of this I can not call PJ brother. He is my neighbor so I am to love him as such but embrace as brother I can not do with the limited information I know about him. His fruit is bad so I have to come to the conclusion he is a bad tree because bad fruit can not come from a good tree.
Ok all you tongue believers have at it! If there is one thorn that can get people bent out of shape is to call their tongue gift false or fake, it will get a fire storm started every time.
s associated with the charismatic churches or preachers. Why do we not see this gift in our church history for 1800 years and now we have people who will vehemently fight a bitter fight for this belief?
Personally I do not take the definition of tongues describe by some here or by the charismatic churches. Remember speaking in tongues as a strange babbling is something that does happen in satanic worship. And the devil does disguise himself as an angel of light and is deceiving many. Oh but of course all those here on the forums are to spiritual for the devil to deceive so that can't be what I am suggesting here.
There are 5 sources speaking in tongues can come from
1. The Holy Spirit and I don't believe that is happening the way people describe it, every time I hear about it it sounds unbiblical anyway.
2. Demonic. My personal pick for what influences most people.
3. Showmanship or entertainment. This I have seen and heard and it made me laugh so I guess it was entertaining. But yet sad because of the deceived souls falling for it.
4. A lunatic. Some are just plan out of their mind or acting like they are.
5. Ignorance. People want so badly to be a part of something they think they need to do this to be accepted so the play it out.
I know this will start a fire storm and I am not going to argue this point here. I have studied Acts 2 and know about the Holy Spirit and things that went on all through the book, I have done my research and am convinced of what the Holy Spirit in my studies has reveled to me on this subject. I want to ask if you are a person who thinks they speak in tongues try not wearing it proudly on your sleeve as a badge. It is not very pretty to those who think you are wrong or just plan weird.
Now this brings me to what I have always wondered. I hear all the time about essentials and non essentials to salvation. As long as we have the essentials right we can be wrong on the non essentials and still call each other brother. Really? Is that true? Is that biblical? How much can someone be wrong and still be right? Is there not but 1 truth? I mean hey I could be wrong on the tongues issue but that probably means I am wrong about a lot of other important doctrines as well if I am using the same hermeneutic principles else where as I used on my study of tongues. Or vise versa if I am right about tounges and I did use the proper hermeneutical principles to know this, then those that are wrong could be wrong on other important issues as well.
Like I have said before PJ describes a god I can not find in the bible. His constant attacks on the character and nature of the God I see and know from the Bible and against those who follow God are blasphemous at best and heretical at worst. Because of this I can not call PJ brother. He is my neighbor so I am to love him as such but embrace as brother I can not do with the limited information I know about him. His fruit is bad so I have to come to the conclusion he is a bad tree because bad fruit can not come from a good tree.
Ok all you tongue believers have at it! If there is one thorn that can get people bent out of shape is to call their tongue gift false or fake, it will get a fire storm started every time.
Not one thing you have said has answer anything I have posted! you have just been babling on and going in a direction I have no clue where it came from. You and I are in agreement here ET. New reading glasses may be needed for you.
Yeah Row, the foolishness that is going on in many churches is not even according to what Paul ahs worotten about speaking in tongues (languages) if there is no one in the church who has need to hear the gospel in another language why speak? This is why Paul rebuked the Corinthians for showing off their spiritual gifat in the church for how, when there was not a need for anyone to speak in the new languages they had be granted by the Holy Spirit.
If this is what you're saying I agree, but you're saying God is no longer giving out these spiritual gifts, then I disagree with, and I'm not preaching to the choir, I'm oreaching to the ushers at the door, who are on the inside looking outside and all others who say such, who don't believe God is still performing the same spiritual gifts for the work in ministry, its happening everyday somewhere and I know of people who don't know but their language, and yet they speak in at least 2 different languages and have never had any studies or been around people of these countries, their langues come easy as if they have been born in that place. .:excited::yay:
Hey, I'm going to bed, I have an early call in the morning. I have to go by the dollar store and buy some new reading galsses:ROFL::ROFL::yay::nahnah:...ctch you tomorrowm have a God bless Sunday Row, and everybody!:applause::glow: hope somebody goes to Sunday school in the morning so you guys can know whta's going on in the WORD:rocknroll:
I guess most people agree with you. Unless speaking in tongues is intelligible by the people hearing it, then it is pointless, and if it doesn't follow biblical truths then it is satanic. No firestorms so far, lol.
I would like to point out that in the last days God's people will be following His commandments and they will have the testimony of Jesus. The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy, so there will be prophets in the last days. Prophets do not always predict the future. Most of the time they were just messengers, not necessarily to bring new truth, but to bring people back to what they had lost. Sorry to go a little of topic...but it was kinda touched on and I had to speak up. Messengers from God are an "essential" anyway, so I guess it wasn't so far off.
And I'd also like to point out that if you claiming that it is possible to misinterpret the bible, then it is possible for you to misinterpret it as well. Judge not, unless you want to judge yourself by the same standard. I believe you are wrong on a lot of doctrinal issues, because you don't agree with what I have studied my whole life. Does that make you a heretic? I don't think so. Maybe we're both sincere believers that love God and are searching for truth? Still growing in our spiritual walk? Maybe God is leading us out of these errors into the whole truth? Lets hope so. Keep your ears open!
:peace::peace:
P.S. (And I still think MrRow is DarrellO "reincarnated":laugh::goofball:)
Number one Jesus said, it is far better that I go away, why that he might send unto you another comforter.
Acts 2:4 is not about tongues, nor is it the gift of tongues, it is as the bible teaches the Gift of the Holy Spirit.
Each Gospel mentions what was to come and who would do it.
Mt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mr 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Lu 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Joh 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Jesus said don't go anywhere until the promise of the father comes speaking of the Holy Spirit, and we know by the Gospel of John the disciples where already born again according to John:
Jo 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
Verse 8 in chapter one tells us why they where to wait:
Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Power to be a witness to Jesus
Notice the Holy Spirit was to come upon not within
The all that was in the upper room and received was 120
Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
The Holy Spirit came upon them, filled them and then they spoke in tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.
This is not the Gift of tonuges, but the Gift of tongues but the Gift of the Holy Spirit.
The tongues is a result of receiving the Holy Spirit, this is speaking in tongues and one can do it at their own will after they received the Holy Spirit.
This is the first bible witnes, the bible calls for two or three to establish a thing.
Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 � While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
All received
The Spirit came upon
The said it was the Gift of the Holy Ghost because they heard them speak with tongues.
Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Acts 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John�s baptism.
Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Acts 19:7 And all the men were about twelve.
The question was asked have you received the Holy Spirit since you believe, or where saved, we have not heard of no Holy Spirit, and again the Holy Spirit came on them and they spake with tongues
In every instance it was always upon, all received the holy spirit, this is not the gift of tongues, the gift on tongues come as the spirit wills, speaking in tongues is by the will of man after he receives the holy spirit.
point 1- The pharacees walked up to Jesus and called him Satan for healing people in the name of God.This is in the gospels.
Point 2- The 12 came to Jesus and said a man speaks about you to the people and we told him to stop. Jesus said," He who is not against us is for us."
point 3- My X wife thought when she heard tongues it was in latin at my church.It was her first time she heard it.
point 4- Since I speak in tongues the way you say is of the devil how can I confess Jesus Christ as my savior.You can not serve 2 masters pal. You either serve Jesus and confess him or you confess the devil is your god.It is not possible to serve both.Your attack is offensive to me.It is an act of spiritual immaturity. You condem what you do not understand.
point 5- God makes the rules and can change them as he see fit who are we to say what is so pal?????? get the message MR. ROW God makes the rules not you.If he wants to have people speaking in the babbling that we do that is God's bussiness and his call!!!!!!! Not yours!!!!!!
point 6- when I first got saved and learned about tongues certain members of my family sent me threats in the mail. I was cut off from my family for 5 long years.I either spent my holidays with church friends or in the boarding house I lived in.they tried to starve me in to leaving my church, (family)
this act failed.
point 7- Since God makes the rules it would be by the Holy Spirit, so I would not speak out against something like this if I were you,Mr. Row
If you say I am of the devil we can discuss this with CDFF administration, get the point pal. I am not pleased with your post.DENNIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
While I agree with much of what Mr Row said about tongues, I will not say it is demonic.
I went to a Pentecostal Bible College, so I am familiar with all the arguments. It sounded hollow then and still does, to me.
Now, with that said, if it brings you closer to God, how can that be a bad thing? Though I think there is a lot of adding to the word to try to prove it, I will not condemn anyone for doing it.
The Pentecostal tongue spoken of in Acts started with the story of the Tower of Babel, and it will end with Zeph. 3:9 at the second coming. However throughout the Bible, every time people spoke in tongues, the language was recognized by those around them.
In my experience, the reason tongues is so prevalent today is because of the way people are taught. Yes, I went through it. If it were the Holy Spirit speaking through you, do you think you would control it? Are you more powerful than the Spirit that it does as you wish?
However, what you do in private is your business, God knows what you want no matter what comes out of your mouth.
