I know its a lot of reading,but read this passage for me and then tell me what you think please.
�AT THIS TIME I WILL COME, AND SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON.� 10 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God�s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12 it was said to her, �THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.� 13 Just as it is written, �JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.�
14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15 For He says to Moses, �I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION.� 16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, �FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH.� 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
19 You will say to me then, �Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?� 20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, �Why did you make me like this,� will it? 21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,
Mark, God is the ONLY PERSON WHO HAS FREE WILL! He has not given man that power, but He has given man free choice to choose his course and path, but if this course and path is not according to what God has dereed for that person ONLY GOD can change it. Only God has the pwoer to stop and start at His WILL.
I think if you READ and understand Romans chapter 9, you will get a better understanding of how God's will works, and man's free choice to choose, but God has the total power nad control over man desicions. Why do you think that things don't always go as you have planned them, or the out comes are not as you expected? Think about this...
It was your choice to repent of your sins and choose to come to Christ AFTER God had pointed out/called to you your need to make the change in your life. It was not your will, it was YOUR free choice to give in to His invitation/His call to come to Christ...
And, What does the scriptures say, YOU CHOOSE THIS DAY WHOM YOU WILL SERVE...
I apologize for the misunderstanding my post caused. I was not trying to say that God takes our free will away in all areas. I was making the point that God is sovereign and able to do as He wills in our lives.
I do have to say that when He called me, I had no choice. I didn't want to change. I was in prison and planning to finish my time and go back to my old life. God had other plans.
I was reading a novel in my bunk when I had this overwhelming urge to read the bible. Two months before I had stood in the middle of a classroom and told the teacher that the only reason she believed in God was that she couldn't accept the fact that when she died, that was it. I couldn't understand the novel anymore, so I borrowed a bible. I ordered my own the next day. I read it through, from cover to cover, probably 10 times before I even attended a service.
During all that time, I must have tried to rebel a dozen times, but God wouldn't let me. He dragged me to salvation kicking and screaming, and I thank Him for it every day. He saved my life, both physically, and spiritually.
So don't tell me He won't act against our will because I know from experience that is not true. Praise God, He decided to save me. I don't know why. I am no better than anyone else and worse than many, but my Father loves me and that is all that matters.
Not according to the bible Leon, for your statement to be true, the lord would have to be a liar, he would have to be confused, he would have to be unjust, he would have to be a manipulator, among being a respector of persons, those attributes do fit Satan though very well.
He is at the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil selling his fruit.
Thank you Leon for clearing your position and your response to Mark was out of order and unbiblical
Get thee behind me Satan. Your lies do no good here. I am a child of God and, like Jesus, you cannot tempt me. I will not believe your unbiblical lies.
Joh 10:26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
Joh 10:28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
Obviously you do not believe because you are not His sheep. I will pray for you.
Sheep would not make the statement you did Leon, it is ok for me to agree with God's word, it is not my choice for you to not, Satan does not listen to those that proclaim God is sovereign over all things, he laughs at that, he loves it when that lie is bought.
PJ, if you would take the time to READ Romans chapter 9, you will find that the righteous character of the infinite God, has the soveregin power over the finite charcater of man. Man is limited in what he can and cannot do.
I get confused with your comments, because you tend to change your speak with the wind, you say God is in total control over man, and you say God has given man total control.
If man has free will this would give man power to do as he pleases, and God would not stand to correct him or make changes. Romans chapter 9, let us know that although Pharaoh tried to use his free will and disobey, God showed him that he had no power over what God had decreed for him to do. As the chapter also reminds us that the potter has the power over the molding of the clay, so has God over man.
PLEASE READ ROMANS CHAPTER 9... and allow the Holy Spirit of God to enlighten your understanding and open your eyes into the meaning of the scriptures, and STOP trying to interpret what you don't understand, nor can you explain what you are speaking. Sometimes you hit it on the mark, then other times you go off into left field and ramble on about somethig you know nothing about.
My question to you is, what makes what you speak correct and according to God's word, and what others speak is not according of the word? What make you right and others wrong? YET, you are unable to explain what is according to the word. Posting scriptures is not explaining, because you cannot explain the scriptures you post and how they fit into this passage or their meaning.
If others are wrong in what they speak , why have you corrected anyone with the truth? why keep saying others are not speaking the word of God, PLEASE tell me, us what is the word of God saying on this matter, if we have it all wrong?
If what we speak is not according to what Paul has written in Romans chapter 9, then YOU explain to us what Paul is writing and what this passage is saying that is correct. But if you don't explain and can't explain this passage its not we who are not speaking the word of God correcting, its YOU, only because you don't a clear understanding and have not learnt how to connect the dots of scriptures properly.
Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such city, spenda year there, but and sell, and makea proft." whereas you do not know what will happen tomorrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away.
Instead you ought to say, "IF THE LORD WILLS, WE WILL LIVE AND DO THIS OR THAT. But now you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil. Therefore, to the person who knows to do good (right) abd does not do it, to that person it is sin. James chapter 4
A man's heart plans his way, BUTTHE LORD DIRECTS HIS STEPS. Proverbs chpater 16
I do not have my bible handy.I am some place else. I will try and write this to the best of my memory.
The case of free will- is that we can not go outside of Gods will. We can make choices that give us a free choice.people make errors and sin then repent.This is all forgiven and we have a free choice to obey or not too.
Example- having an affair then repenting of it.:peace:
God plan for our life is still there.
As for the elect I was always told tha the anti christ would deceive the elect too.Who are the elect? Well, some would say the jews. some say we who have been adapted by Christ.
It is possible for the chosen to say to God we want no part of your plan. What would have happened had Paul said that on the Damascus road.He had a choice people to refuse that calling. I believe he would have been struck dead on the spot. You have my view. To out right refuse Christ when the Holy Spirit comes to offer you salvation is Blasphemy Of the Holy Spirit.That is a free trip to Hell. This is an act of free will by a person. Feel free to disagree.Dennis
