Author	Thread: What is the purpose of this thread?
Admin	What is the purpose of this thread? Posted : 4 Jun, 2010 11:21 AM Hi everyone I just want to clarify what I think this thread is for.I would welcome everyones veiws.I beleive this thread is for discussing theological issues and to intelligently and civilly debate points that we disagree on. It is not for someone to just come on and tell everyone else their wrong,obviouslly we know people have differences of opinion and theology,we should be able to make our points logically,without emotion. Also Im kind of tired of the,why cant we all just get along thing.I dont hate people who disagree with me,but I will state my beleifs(and back them up with scripture,articles from wiser men than I. If someone doesnt like discussing theology there are many other threads,I happen to love it,I find deep theological issues to be intoxicating! Oh well,just some thoughts In Christ steve P.S.we can respect each other,and even love each other and have meaningful,grownup debates. Post Reply
View Profile History	What is the purpose of this thread? Posted : 4 Jun, 2010 08:43 PM the point I would like to bring up is wording of "once saved always saved" That is a Baptist expression. The problem with this is the combination of two things the Baptist's do. 1. they have you "come forward" in the church to make a confession of faith to the church. 2. they word the doctrine "once saved, always saved". The Baptist way of "walking the aisle" and then saying "once saved always saved" has given the impression to MANY people that just because you make a confession of faith that you are saved no matter what if there is zero evidence of that person being born again or not. THIS IS BAD! The historic Christian way of saying this was clarified in the Reformation and Christians SHOULD say it this way: "True Christians WILL persevere in the faith" I don't believe that Christians can lose their salvation because GOD is the one who saved them, and God will not lose ANY of His chosen people. But, when you use the historic saying of "True Christians will persevere in the faith", then no one gets the idea that just because you said one day that "I believe in Jesus" that you have been born again, even though there is no sign of it in your life. I can post the Scriptures on why I believe that All God's chosen people WILL persevere to the end. I just wanted to say that we need to say it right so that no one will confuse a profession of faith, with actual evidences that a person is truly born again. In Christ, James Post Reply
View Profile History	What is the purpose of this thread? Posted : 4 Jun, 2010 08:54 PM I agree, James... "Once saved, always saved" can be a misleading statement. I do NOT think that those who insincerely respond to an alter call are covered by that statement. Unfortunately, there's a huge misunderstanding of what constitutes true salvation. Post Reply
klmartin62 View Profile History	What is the purpose of this thread? Posted : 4 Jun, 2010 09:27 PM Looks like my brother James has this one covered. Great job, James. I had never looked at it like that before, but I love your wording. Love and grace, Leon Post Reply
View Profile History	What is the purpose of this thread? Posted : 4 Jun, 2010 09:40 PM AMEN James! Post Reply
View Profile History	What is the purpose of this thread? Posted : 4 Jun, 2010 10:31 PM .1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 1Jo 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame., The covenant always has to parties, God has made his commitment clear AS one comes into the family of God by faith, if man was to denounce the lord it is clearly possible, to not be granted repentance. Post Reply
View Profile History	What is the purpose of this thread? Posted : 4 Jun, 2010 11:42 PM If you go back and read what The Church Fathers were writing about this subject you will see that The Church has from the very beginning taught that you can lose your Salvation. Actually it taught that Salvation was an ongoing process...that you had to �pick up your Cross� everyday and work Diligently on not sinning and to do the Will of God. Here are some verses: �For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. For the earth which brings in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.� (Hebrews 6:4-8) This states that it is IMPOSSIBLE for someone that has FALLEN AWAY to renew... Also the end result is ...�to be BURNED� The author believes that a Saved Believer that has FALLEN AWAY could burn in hell. �For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses� law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, �Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says the Lord.� And again, �The Lord will judge His people.� It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.� (Hebrews 10:26-31) �For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: �A dog returns to his own vomit,� and, �a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.� (2 Peter 2:20) Here the authors tells us that if we SIN WILLFULLY after being Saved our punishment is greater then if we were not Saved at all. Futhermore it shows that once saved you can FALL OUT OF GRACE by sinning and not confessing your sin. 1.�Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.� (1 Corinthians 6:9) � 2.�Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.� (Galatians 5:19) Here are specific sins that if not confessed will cause you to lose your Salvation. �Not everyone who says to Me, �Lord, Lord,� shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, �Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?� And then I will declare to them, �I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!� (Matthew 7:21) Again, these Christians were Saved...capable of doing Wonderous things � yet they were not allowed access to Heaven (they lost their Salvation). �There is a sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.� (1 John 5:16-17) �You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.� (Galatians 5:4) There are sins that if left unconfessed and unrepented of will doom you to hell, even if you were Saved. �He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not BLOT OUT his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.� (Revelation 3:5) Here Jesus speaks of �BLOTTING OUT NAMES from the Book of Life. Christians that were once Saved but Fell Out of GRACE. The Key here is Falling Out of GRACE...of becoming Estranged from God. I have never liked this line of thinking...it is too easy and so misleading. When I am approached out in public and asked �are you saved?� I tell �no, I am Catholic!� We believe that our Salvation is a Daily struggle of slips and falls and of asking forgiveness from Our Lord and Savior. Even Paul himself wrote that he �...looked forward fearfully towards Heaven...� and his Salvation . Salvation is a Daily Walk my Sisters and Brothers. You have no gaurantee, other then you have all the Might and Power of God and all of Heaven rooting for you and making available all the Grace that you will need to Endure to the End. All you need to do is Walk with Jesus everyday with your Cross and with your Heart and to never give up and to always get right back up after each Fall. We are not perfect but we have Him who is Perfect by our side...Always and Forever! AMEN Steve Post Reply
View Profile History	What is the purpose of this thread? Posted : 5 Jun, 2010 12:03 AM One more verse: Philippians 2:12 So then, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence but even more in my absence, continue working out your salvation with awe and reverence ...continue "WORKING OUT YOUR SALVATION..." That sure seems to inply (it actually speaks directly) that Salvation is a Work in Progress! So stay in God's Graces. Confess your sins and pray for His Grace and Mercy. Steve Post Reply
klmartin62 View Profile History	What is the purpose of this thread? Posted : 5 Jun, 2010 02:57 AM There are hundreds of other verses that seem to say the opposite, as well. PJ, your verse does not mean anywhere near what you think if you take it back to the original language. That is why few people use it to try to prove this point. Keep studying, you will get there some day. Archie, If your interpretation of those verses is correct,then the Bible lies. Or do you have some other explanation of the prodigal son? What about Peter? He denied Jesus in public 3 times. It doesn't get much worse than that, yet he was forgiven. Both of these were put in th Bible for a reason. If you rally want to understand w2hat those verses y'all have been quoting mean, read them from a view of self examination and they suddenly fit with the rest of the Bible. Blessings, Leon Post Reply
View Profile History	What is the purpose of this thread? Posted : 5 Jun, 2010 05:28 AM thanks for your perspective arch intentional sin is never shown as a grounds for loss of salvation.we have many examples of "saints in the bible who intentionally sinned....Peter denied Christ....David committed adultry...Moses did in striking the rock when god told him to speak to it...ect. if sinning meant we lost our salvation,there would be no one who could be saved. when we sin,god will discipline us(heb. 12;5-1) when we repent we are welcomed back like the prodigal son In Hebrews 10;26 it says if we sin willfully,there is no longer a sacrifice for sin,BUT,immediately before this verse 18 tells us WHY there is no longer a sacrifice for sins,Because having forgiven our sins and tresspasses there is no longer a need for sacrifice,another way we can say this is,ONCE WE ARE IN CHRIST,WE ARE FORGIVEN Post Reply
View Profile History	What is the purpose of this thread? Posted : 5 Jun, 2010 08:56 AM There are true and false conversions. Parable of the sower, wheat & tares, foolish virgins & wise virgins, good fish & bad fish. If someone is save they will perservere to the end if they are a false convert they will be saying LORD, LORD on that day when Jesus will say depart from me I never knew you! Post Reply

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