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Unlimited Atonement:
Posted : 22 May, 2010 08:22 AM

Ephesians 1:4 According as He hath chosen us in Him (this was addressed to believers - those in Him - only believers are "in Christ") before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:



Rev 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying, You are worthy to take the scroll, and to open the seals thereof: for you were slain, and have redeemed us to God by your blood out of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation;



This is talking about the fact that of all the nations, tongues, tribes, etc. not all believed. So there is a remnant that DO believe - this does not mean that Christ only wanted some to be saved. We already know from scripture that it is God's desire that ALL be saved and that ALL should come to repentance (2Pet 3:9). So... scripture must agree with other scriptures that are very clear.



Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS: for He shall save His people from their sins.



"He will save His people...." Christ died for everyone, though He foreknew that not everyone would believe in Him. His people are "them that believe".



1Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.



1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.



Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.



Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:



John 10:15 As the Father knows me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.



Christ died "for His sheep" and also everyone else, even those who will never become His sheep.



2Pet 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who shall secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.



If I say, "Christ died for me", does that mean He only died for me? nope. Again, we have to reconcile this verse with all the others that speak of His atonement.



Ephesians 1:4 According as He hath chosen us in Him (this was addressed to believers - those in Him - only believers are "in Christ") before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:





This verse is saying that BELIEVERS were chosen, and for this purpose - "that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love".







5: Having predestinated us (believers, those in Him, verse 4) unto the adoption of children (He has predestined that BELIEVERS - the "us" - would be "adopted as children") by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,



John 6:37 All that the Father gives me shall come to me; and he that comes to me I will in no wise cast out.

38: For I came down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of Him that sent me.

39: And this is the Father's will who has sent me, that of all that He has given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40: And this is the will of Him that sent me, that everyone who sees the Son, and believes on Him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise Him up at the last day.



Only believers will come to Christ, they are the ones given to Christ by the Father. Even though all are drawn by the Holy Spirit -



John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.



The gift of salvation is for everyone, but not all will believe... not all will choose to receive the gift. Christ turns no one away who comes to Him.



Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare His generation? for He was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was He stricken.

"the transgression of my people" - Israel and also all people, since all are sinners.

11: He shall see the travail of His soul, and shall be satisfied: by His knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for He shall bear their iniquities.

12: Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and He shall divide the spoil with the strong; because He has poured out His soul unto death: and He was numbered with the transgressors; and He bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.



"many", meaning a multitude of people. Clarke's commentary has this to say:



Isa 53:12 He bare the sin of many - רבים rabbi m, the multitudes, the many that were made sinners by the offenses of one; i.e., the whole human race; for all have sinned - all have fallen; and for all that have sinned, and for all that have fallen, Jesus Christ died.



In a previous verse in this chapter of Isaiah,



Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned everyone to his own way; and the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.



"the iniquity of us all". Who are the "all"? ALL those who have gone astray. which also agrees with these verses -



Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.



How many were born ungodly? Obviously, EVERYONE.



Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of One the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.



All were condemned, and the gift was for all men.



Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all.



1Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ (refer to Ephes 1:4 - "He hath chosen us IN HIM" - in Christ, believers) shall all be made alive.



2Cor 5:21 For He has made Him, who knew no sin, to be sin for us; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.



We know from reading the previous verses (as well as other salvation passages) that the "us" is all sinners - everyone, as shown here:



2Cor 5:14 For the love of Christ constrains us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15: And that He died for all, that they who live should no longer live unto themselves, but unto Him who died for them, and rose again.



Vicarious atonement - meaning "serving in or taking the place of something (or someone) else" - substitutionary. According to scripture, Christ's death was a substitute FOR SINNERS -



1Pet 3:18 For Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust (the unjust being everyone, since we are all sinners, none excluded), that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but made alive by the Spirit:



Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man.



This principle is to always be applied when approaching the word of God, The word of God is TRUTH, when two scriptures seem to oppose one another, we must look for a third to reconcile the two, for it is impossible for God to Lie!!

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Unlimited Atonement:
Posted : 26 May, 2010 06:03 AM

So are you saying I�m going to hell? I�m just asking you a simple question. Very simple YES or NO. Lay a little truth on me.

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Unlimited Atonement:
Posted : 26 May, 2010 06:25 AM

I didn't say anything such thing.

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Unlimited Atonement:
Posted : 26 May, 2010 06:45 AM

But Paul says in Galatians 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

You did say



Unlimited Atonement:

Posted: 26 May, 2010 05:45 AM

PhillipJohn

No you are not pleading ignorance, you are trying to present another gospel!!



And yet you still have not answered my question.

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Unlimited Atonement:
Posted : 26 May, 2010 07:05 AM

Yes I have, the answer is Jesus

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