Since we know that because of preordained foreknowlege, man can not resist the love of God, the lord will just save them and they will not resist and they will never depart from the faith.
So a man just has to accept his elected wife according to preordained foreknowledge and she will not tell you no, she will love you forever.
Not according to the bible, I choose the bible as my source, if mankind trys to approach God with his soul, you will miss him every time.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man�s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
You are right about the bible passage you quoted, Romans 10. Whosoever calls the name of the Lord will be saved etc.
You ask the following questions:
BENNY IS THIS MY WORD?
No, what you quote is the bible and in this case the word of Paul, translated by whoever translated this and possibly got his own understanding into it. Bt basically I think it is what Paul wrote down.
DOES THE WORD OF GOD REVEAL MAN'S RESPONSIBILITY TO BE SAVED.
I do not see this as much as you do. It speaks about what man is to do, but it doesn't say if it is the free decision of man that causes the doing, but the Holy Spirit working in the man doing it. I wrote more on the subject further down, answering the question about the "elect".
DOES THE WORD OF GOD NOT MENTION HERE, WHOSOEVER WILL?
I didn't find the "will" part, or do you mean will like in will-future? The question I have to this is, as stated above: Given man is doing what is mentioned there, who or what caused this to happen? God through the Holy Spirit? Or the man himself out of his own glory and independendly from God?
DOES THE WORD OF NOT MAKE IT CLEAR, ANYONE CAN BE SAVED IF THEY OBEY THESE SCRIPTURES.
It makes clear that anyone can be saved who obeys the law, if you mean that. But Paul also writes in scripture that if we go by one law, we have to fulfill all law and no man is able to do this (Gal 3:1-14).
WHERE DOES IT SAY BENNY, ONLY MY ELECT?
It does not speak of the elect and I did not ever say the bible would use the term elect. But when you (rightly) assume that those who confess and believe in the Lord will be saved, and that there is no deed we can do, as this would mean we could be saving ourselves and we could take pride, the term elect makes sense to me, as all starts in God. The term elect would make no sense if all were going to heaven and hell would remain empty. Many christians call this heresy, I do not know your opinion on it.
If you look at Eph 1, 3-6:
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
you don't find "elect" but chosen. God has chosen us in Christ before the foundation of the world, so also without us doing anything to it.
In Romans 8, 28-30 we read:
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
God did according to the bible as you see, predestine people to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. He called them, justified them and glorified them. All that was done by the Lord, not by them.
Furthermore we read in Romans 9, 15-18:
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
God has mercy with those He wills, and He hardens to those He wills. Could Pharao do anything to be saved? To confess the Lord with his mouth? We read in Ex 4,21 that God hardened his heart, now how does this get together with free choice on the pharao's side?
Or if we look at Eph 2, 8-10:
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
By grace we are saved through faith, but not by works we can do ourselves, so faith is nothing that we have in control of chosing ourselves. God ordained us to walk in the good works He has created us unto in Christ. So if we confess Him with our mouths, this is a work He ordained us doing, but not that we do ourselves?
IF WHOSOEVERS CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD THEY WILL BE SAVED, FOR THE LORD CANNOT LIE.
I take your word on it, PhillipJohn, God cannot lie and won't contradict Himself. So please show me through scripture and logical thinking, how to get those scriptures together in a way that man would have to care for his salvation on his own, like you say. Where does scipture say that all this speaking in Pauls letters about predestination and ordaining etc is to be understood in a way, that man could by his own decision without God having to do with it safe himself by doing what you pointed out very well in your scripture quotes.
And please, don't tell me again I would be using man's word. I've been quoting scripture to proof my point, so if you say this is man's word, you call the letters to the Romans, to the Ephsians and Exodus man's word, though they belong to the bible. I am eager to learn, so show me. But do show me, and don't toss another bible verse at me without explaining, tell me what you mean, don't let me guess, okay?
I don't ever take a bible verse as an opinion, nor ever try to express an opinion, that would not be believing the word.
Yes you quoted verses, that seem as though god said this or that, but what do you do with the verses that directly oppose those quoted, this is where studying comes in and rightly dividing.
I have said it before not as arrogant but as the word teaches, you cannot come to truth of the word by your mental faculties, or reasoning abilities, that is what the bible calls as carnal, which is where man was before the new birth.
What does the word say about that:Ro 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Ro 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
this is an ongoing transformation.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man�s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
1 � And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
The bible says clearly the spirit of God reveals to man's spirit
okay verses like the heart is wicked:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Lu 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.
The word will always explain itself if you study, if you study or look up the word heart, you will seem plenty of scriptures that disagree with the heart always being bad
many times as this scriptures indicates the heart is relative to the man
To sum it up the bible is clear, the heart is not always deceitful.
Benny many scriptures quoted are not in context of the topic, the word will always define the word.
The lord is not willing that any should perish, that is his will revealed, no one is saying all will be saved, because some will choose to not believe just as the word says.
The elect is defined to me in the word by those that choose to be elected.
There is night and day between the elect and one that accepts the election.
Okay I don.t know where you get it that I said that man can save themself, I have never said that,
What scripture clearly says is man has a choice and a response to God, according to his word.
Grace is received by faith, faith is man's response to the word of God.
I don't know where people come up with the word of God, being the word of man.
God has used men to reveal himself to man, from the beginning, faith accepts that truth.
1Th 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Okay, so I understand you right, PhillipJohn, that your point is that all verses you bring forth are declaring the will of God and everythign I bring up I understand wrong and take out of context, because your verses said somethign else beforehand, right?
I am sorry but this is no mode for debate. Whatever I say, you just say that I am wrng and then you repeat what you have said before, you don't even try to explain things to me. It is: Eat or die. I won't eat, and I know I won't die either:applause:
I do not believe that God would create man, sefe him if he choses God while man is created in a way that he has a hard heart, not able to chose God.
I just cannot imagine, and I cannot find clear biblical evidence, for you only show some verses, but I showed other verses myself, I cannot imagine that God who loves us so much He gave His only begotten son to have our salvation depend on our own sinful, weak and basically godless will.
This would open wide doors to possibilities of satan decieving us away from it again and again. Satan decieved Adam and Eve, you say at another point that the world was his dominion, so men have to be really lucky (and it would be pure luck and no secret guidance of the Lord for it's man's decision alone in your argument) to be saved. I have problems thinking God would leave our savation to being lucky and not make things sure for the love for us.
I never said you where wrong, I said the word is correct, the word of God does not contradict it self, it may seem to on the surface, but it will balnce out when you accept the truth that the word is true and God cannot lie.
Do you know the bible from cover to cover reveals certain truths, thruout the bible.
The lord always expects man to accept his word as truth.
He calls this believing and as man believes and responds correctly to the word of God the lord calls it faith.
Benny you always say man can do no right without the holy spirit.
