Should we not know what the will of God is, on a subject, why is it inferred we don't or can't know.
The word of God known as the will of God surely says we can know, and we have the responsibility to know
Abraham and old testament Saint was fully persuaded, and he did not have near the abilities we have as believers.
We should be filled withe knowledge of his will, we have it readily available to us.
1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Lu 7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
sos said "Knowing the Word does not mean knowing God�s Will."
me...yes it does ..2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance"
sos said..."God enters into a personal relationship with each individual. Without that, you know nothing and go nowhere."
me...more or less, it all starts when u accept Christ.
sos said..."Also, you cannot know God�s Will for someone else by knowing the Word (bible)."
me...huh? are you talking about God's calling for someone?
Nyanda, did you really accept Christ yourself? I ask because this is so foreign a concept to me... I did not accept Christ, I recieved Him when God showed me through His Holy Spirit while reading scripture that He accepted me:applause:
And it was not the scripture alone, because I had read that part of it several times before without Him showing me anything about it.
I wonder why you all on here did accept Christ yourselves, sounds like you had a choice like to go to McDonalds or rather BurgerKing, to have Pepsi or Coke... For me it was all different.
the opposite of acceptance is rejection; Acts 4:11 (King James Version)"This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner." this verse is often quoted as "the stone that the builders refused" can i use the word accept now? why do you suggest that God strong arms people into doing his will? he gives us choices...Deuteronomy 30:15-20.
God does reveal his word to us, but we must believe in Christ first. surely God doesn't come and believe for us?
i understand that the two sides of the coin are salvation or death, God himself exhorts us to choose salvation. anyone in their right minds would chose salvation, but Jeremiah 17:9 (King James Version)"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" we are sick! that is why God sent Jesus, to wash us of iniquity. also Hebrews 4:15 (King James Version) "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."
the will of God is for all to be saved, Christ is the sacrifice, he is also the one who first prayed for those of us who believe. we are taught to be like Christ, we must pray also for the unbelievers... so that "none shall perish, but all shall be saved"
i see what you are saying, you didn't have a choice... but you did. all glory be to God, for it is his beautiful plan, his son, his mercy.
If you say there is also a passive side to acceptance, I can agree with you. Then I did accept the Lord for He caused this acceptance in me.
But under a choice I nderstand that I can chose freely, by my own fancy without being drawn to one thing, and God drew me to Himself extremely. And I find this also in the bible, where Paul had no chance but to listen to Christ, when He was talking to him. I don't have the passage in my head now, but did the bible ever say anything about Paul making a decision to follow Christ and not his former judaism anymore?
Sorry for bringing this up again and again, but I want to understand for I do not yet see completely what you mean. I wish this could be talked about without polemics about Calvinists, Arminians and what else (actually all those names confuse me and I keep mixing their doctrines up, for me it's interesting what is true and not who said it last time).
So what do you mean, in how far did I have a choice? For I do not see having had a choice ever? God is there, He saved me, halleluyah, I have no chance to reject this truth, I just don't see how I ever could.
no problem benny.:waving: if you are hungry and go to the grocery store to buy food. you walk into the refrigeration section to get a chicken and realize that there they only have beef and tuna. but your allergic to tuna so you buy beef. would you say that was a choice?
the way God designed us we need food. so it can be said that we have no choice to be hungry or not, but you still chose to go get food. some people chose not to eat it's called anorexia it's not healthy, but it's their choice. some people do drugs, it's not healthy, but it's their choice...
the builders rejected Christ, and he is our corner stone today. whether it was God's plan or not is pure speculation. but the fact is that they rejected him. satan worshippers reject Christ and chose to worship satan, i don't think God would make people go worship lucifer for any reason atall. hope it's a little clearer. even if you don't agree, i hope u get what i'm trying to say:waving:
another thing, how do you view responsibility? are we responsible for our actions?
i always look at the beginning of the blame game in genesis. God asked adam why he eat... he blame eve... God ask eve... she blame the serpent. in my mind, things would have gone a whole lot better if adam would have said, Lord, i disobeyed your commandment. please forgive me. eve also. forget about that wretched old serpent *grumble*...
micah 6:8 "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"
Yes we are, we are responsible to respond with our God given ability to choose life or death, and because the lord even told us which one to choose, but some with their ability to choose are irresponsible and choose death.
I get more or less what you mean. Though I'd not use the example of tuna and beef, I'd rather speak of breathing. Like you can control your breathing to some way, but you cannot make it stop. Wh can't hold your breath until you die...
This comes maybe very close to how I understand it.
About the responsibility. Yes, I am responsible for what I do, whether I chose to do it or not, it was still me doing it. Maybe it would make sense to differ between choice and will. We might have a free will, but not a free choice on things, so it coul happen that we do things we don't want to do, not sure.
As for responsibility: I am responsible for all those who suffer in the world and I did not help. I cannot help all, but I did not sell all I have and give it to the poor. There might be many pople who can give more, and I do not really decide every day to not give the poor, sometimes I donate money, but I don't give all. I'm too afraid to lose control, which I know I don't have anyway, but still...
I am still responsible for that.
Or take another example. I am German so in debates on moral Hiter comes up rather often with me. Imagine my great grandfather. he was a social democrat, you'd certainly call him a communist in America. He was absolutely opposed to Hitler, but when Hitler came to power, my great grandfather shut up ad didn't attact the fascists right away. He had a family to think of. But he aso could have done more against the terror of the Nazis. He didn't, all he did was refusing to join the party, as he was often adviced to do. I am prod of him for this, because his family was really poor, and the Nazis tried to bait him with big farms in the occupied territories, he woul have gotten one as a new settler there... he didn't do it.
But he aso didn't stand up and speak his mind of them outside of his family. So he has his responsibility for what happened in Europe back then. He is only a small part, but there were milions of small parts that enabled the system to work. He had hs share of responsibility, whatever excuses there are and however good they were. I am glad he did not speak up, because if he did, his family might have been killed, including my grandma, and I wouldn't be here writing to you today...
What I want to say: When you are responsible for a bad thing, it doesn't necessarily mean you are bad yourself. We are all sinners, and no one can say he was better in any way than the other. And I would also broaden the whole concept to faith. Just as we do things wrong for our being sinners, we might as well believe wrong, i.e. worshipping Satan (hardly ever heard of anyone really doing this) or other false gods...
