Thread: 1 Peter 1, Elect; another Calvinist blunder.
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1 Peter 1, Elect; another Calvinist blunder.
Posted : 20 Apr, 2010 11:07 AM
Let's examine 1 Peter 1:1-2. This passage was grossly mistranslated by Calvinists. The Greek says things very differently.
The NKJV, though one of the best translations we have, as with most English translations is very wrong and affects doctrine in this specific passage.
1Peter 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 ELECT according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
In verse two above we see the word "ELECT". When one who is being honest with the grammar of the Greek Texts examines this passage they will find something very different. The word ELECT or CHOICE is not found in verse two of the Greek but in verse ONE. This is very significant.
Young's Literal Translation is much closer to what the Greek says. [ brackets mine]
1Peter 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the CHOICE [Elect] sojourners of the dispersion of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
Notice where the word "choice" or Elect is placed. We are not "Elect" according to God's "foreknowledge". The verse is calling the JEWS of the dispersion as being the ELECT or CHOICE. The Calvinist translators placed the word "ELECT" in the wrong location which is HUGE!!! In the Greek the word "Choice" or Elect" is in verse ONE not two. What an incredible blunder or perhaps incredible bias. Nevertheless it is plain wrong and dramatically affects the meaning of the verse which does not support Calvinism.
2 according to a foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, to obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied!
"Foreknowledge" is an interesting word and Calvinists have created their own meaning to this word. They would have us believe that it means that God looked into the future and then choze people. The word actually means "having prior knowledge" as in a relationship. A person or people He knew previously. Since the word "ELECT" or Choice sojourners is clearly referring to the NATION OF ISRAEL makes it very clear that foreknowledge is referring to ISRAEL and cannot refer in any way to Gentiles/Christians.
Let's continue with the last phrase of verse 2.
" Grace to you and peace be multiplied!"
This can be correctly placed in the beginning of verse 2 to make it more clear even though it gives the same affect where it is.
2 Grace to you and peace be multiplied according to a foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, to obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
You can cross reference Deut 7:6-11 with the above especially 6-7.
Deu 7:6 "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God HAS CHOOZEN you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples on the face of the earth.
7 The LORD did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples;
8 but because the LORD loves you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore to your fathers, the LORD has brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you from the house of bondage, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
9 "Therefore know that the LORD your God, He is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and mercy for a thousand generations with those who love Him and keep His commandments;
10 and He repays those who hate Him to their face, to destroy them. He will not be slack with him who hates Him; He will repay him to his face.
11 Therefore you shall keep the commandment, the statutes, and the judgments which I command you today, to observe them.
When we examine Romans 8:28,29 & 30 we see the same thing concerning "foreknowledge".
Unfortunately most Calvinists are so bias they will not accept this simple truth.
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either no longer be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
Well I see no one here "PROVED" any exegetical error on my part and as usual, Manof...Calvin didn't prove anything but simply ranted. I should have known better that no Calvinist would stay on point and address this passage.
Jude,
This is not about the NKJV or any translation per se but about the WRONG placement of the word by the translators and the significance of that. HELLO! The NKJV is probably the most accurate to the Greek text and my personal favorite but it is not perfect either. No English Bible is inspired by God ...as only the Originals or copies of originals are in their original languages. Translators do and have made errors and some are serious. This is why it is so important to truly study the original languages like Greek.
SOS.... Perhaps you might try looking at the scriptures of this issue and stay on point instead of trying to look at imaginary issues that you falsely believe I have. You might want to place that self-righteous attitude of yours in check. This is a Bible discussion forum and I am addressing scriptures and the importance of such. I believe that Calvinism is Heresy and a very serious one that is an a front to the character and nature of God and the Gospel.
That's funny I can't seem to find a council coming together to condemn Calvinism as heresy. That is just your opinion.
Ever heard of the council of Dort?
The Synod of Dort condemned the religious doctrine of Arminianism as heresy. They did not take this matter lightly meeting a 154 times from November 13, 1618 to May 9, 1619 This council is also where the 5 points of TULIP came from, not John Calvin he was long dead before this controversy ever came about. 84 voting representatives from the Reformed churches 8 from foreign countries were invited. So this was no small matter, they took it very seriously. Your arguments seem tiny now.
Also some of the greatest theologians throughout history have been Calvinists. And the doctrines of Grace (Calvinism) has never been refuted by way smarter men than you, that had far more time to do their bible study. Your arguments are weak at best and self serving at worst.
I still want to know where they teach tap danceing in theology, cause you are good.
But hey it is not all lost, you have helped get more grounded in my doctrinal beliefs of Calvinism, so I thank you!
Peter writes to those in the diaspora (which seems to refer to Jews living not in Palestine) and not to all of them, but to the elect among them, i.e. those who have been elected by the Lord to see the truth and thus be Christians.
I do not see how this does speak out against Calvinism, no matter where you put the word ELECT. Fact is, the word eklektois is in dative, that means, it refers to the reciever of the letter, and not to someone who actually did chose on something (then there had to be a different grammatical from in Greek, you cannot express this in English in the same way as English doesn't have such a degree of word flexing as Greek has).
Eklektos is passive form, that means it can never refer to the one being called eklektos as chosing himself, that would need a whole different word.
But maybe I misunderstood your point Walter. Did you want to say they chose themselves or did you want to say it only means Jews? Isn't there a distinguishion between Jews who do believe in Jesus Christ and those who do not?
On a previous thread you surprised us with the stunning truth that false teachings come from satan!
This was appearantly such a revelation to you, that you thought it necessary to share this with us, fellow christians, who you obviously consider ignorant enough to not be aware of this fact.
Now you have invented the wheel again... saying that the word eklektois refers to the jews instead of gentiles. Well, I do not see how it could be any different as the letter of Peter was adressed to the recently converted jews living in these areas.
Also, you might want to clarify what this greek text, which is merely stating a greeting to its destinated readers before starting any message of the contents itself, has to do with calvinism.
okay.....Manof.....Calvin was funny.And SOS that line about false teachers are from satan had me rolling,DarrellO is always brilliant.you guys keep it up,this is better than the comedy channel...LOL
How do we keep coming back to this. There are better ways to communicate with each other on this site than to insult other people. Here are some scriptures for us to meditate on...
2 Timothy 2:24-25
1 Peter 3:4
Matthew 11:29
Proverbs 15:1, 25:15
Ephesians 4:2
James 3:17
Galatians 5:22-23
If you want to get your point across... find a better way to do so, because this obviously isn't working. It's just bringing others down. We should be building others UP in the faith... not the other way around. We are here in Christ's name... represent. :peace:
oh...And YabaDabaDooo your stuff is great too!You had A line the other day,something about,you didnt choose to be born did you?im gonna have to use that.But again that Illustrates my point perfectly.all the free willys out there never think of that,did they choose to be born,on this particular planet,at this exact time peiriod,to the family they belong,race,gender,ect......You get the point.when I read the bible.i dont see a whole lot of choice ANYWHERE.What I see is a PLAN from a creator being orchestrated precisely from beggining to end!And funny enough when we read all of those predestination verses.Thats exactly what they say.Read the bible as a whole.as one entity,try not to pick out a word or phrase here or there to make a point
This most certainly is not a comedy. Stop stirring and cheering.
@jesusfreak
You are fully right.
@Walter
I do apologise for being so harsh on you. I should have known better than to lower myself to your level of communicating. Looking forward to your reply though
