One of the many mistakes made by Calvinists is how they overlook the grammar of certain passages. In the case of Ephesians 1, a passage that deals with the issue of "Predestination", when we pay close attention to the personal pronouns we discover something that does not support the Calvinistic view of Predestination. What we find is that it is the nation of Israel that was "predestined", not Gentiles, not Christians. Notice in verse 3-12 Paul's exclusive use of "First Person Plural pronouns". This is significant and if you do not comprehend the grammar you will misinterpret this passage and it's proper application like Calvinists do.
Ephesians 1:
1 � Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 � Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed US with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
4 just as He chose US in Him before the foundation of the world, that WE should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
5 HAVING PREDESTINED US to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made US accepted in the Beloved.
7 In Him WE have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace
8 which He made to abound toward US in all wisdom and prudence,
9 having made known to US the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,
10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth��in Him.
11 In Him also WE have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
12 THAT WE WHO FIRST TRUSTED IN CHRIST should be to the praise of His glory.
Now notice the change in the FIRST personal plural pronouns from we and us to SECOND person plural pronouns of "YOU" and "YOUR". This shows us that in the previous verses Paul was including himself among a group of people that were not Gentiles. There is a separation between these two groups. Verses 3-12 indicate that Paul is referring to the nation of Israel. Then below Paul addresses another group. The Gentiles.
13 In Him YOU ALSO TRUSTED, after YOU heard the word of truth, the gospel of YOUR salvation; in whom also, having believed, YOU were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
15 � Therefore I also, after I heard of YOUR faith in the Lord Jesus and YOUR love for all the saints,
16 do not cease to give thanks for YOU, making mention of YOU in my prayers:
17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him,
18 the eyes of YOUR understanding being enlightened; that YOU may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power
20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.
22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church,
23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all. NKJV
The simple conclusion is that this passage in no way supports Calvinism but actually proves them to be in serious error. It is the Nation of Israel that was "Predestined" not Gentiles.
For a thorough scholarly exegesis of this passage go here: http://www.pfrs.org/calvinism/eph1_3.html
well, on the ground of my understanding of the topic which is; a tug of war between predestination (Jesus dying for his elect) and Jesus dying for all people.
i stand the ground of believing that Jesus died for all people on the basis of romans 9 and the specific verse of ephesians 1:5 "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"
This verse leads me to believe that God predestined those who were not 'children of the promise' to be ADOPTED to himself by the death of Christ according to the good pleasure of his will [that none shall perish, but all shall be saved].
God's covenant was with Abraham through his seed [Issacc], in short the jews. But he also appended it.. it is important to note that if Paul was not a jew then ephesians 1:5 does not support my conclusion. but as far as i understand, he was born a jew, but lived as a gentile and probably considered himself to be one to a certain extent....
Please demonstrate where I twisted the scriptures. If you would read and understand Greek you would see the truth. What I posted was sound and irrefutable.
How typical of you to post a whole bunch of scriptures without any exegesis. Do you think that people are so gullible that they would just say..."oh wow he posted a bunch of scriptures that he believes supports his Calvinistic beliefs so he must have a stronger case"? Only a person who is not able to rightly divide the Word of truth would.
Romans 9:19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?" 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? 22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
As a side-note, the word translated "prepared" in "vessels of wrath prepared for destruction" is better translated "perfected". The word "vessels" is the same word translated "vessel" in "vessel for honor and another for dishonor".
So the idea here is "What if God makes vessels unto dishonor, perfected for destruction? What's that to you?"
Why would God do such a thing? The answer is right there in the text, and in countless places in the OT and NT. God wants us to know His ENTIRE character, which means He wants to display His wrath and power to us (the objects of His mercy), to make these things known to us. God can't do that unless He has some vessels perfected for destruction.
God is everywhere at all times, and knows all things of all time, and has all power, agreed?
From that standpoint, allow me to ramble...
God is not ruled by the laws of what we call "time" and "space". He exists at all times and in all places simutaniously. He also has all knowledge, of everything be it past, present, or future (but these are the one and the same to God). Are you with me so far?
God already knew before He created the world that Adam and Eve would fall, and He had already set forth His plan to redeem manknid through His own sacrifice. God also already knew who would, and who would not, accept His sacrifice and the redemption that it brings.
But, even though God already knows this, He plays His cards close to His vest (in other words, He hasn't shared that information with us). So where does that leave us?
We are to proclaim the gospel to every creature in hope of reaching those who will accept Jesus Christ. Not everyone who will accept Him will do so the first time they hear the gospel, or the second, or the third... We just don't know. We can't look at a person and say, "You are not of the elect," because only God knows who they are, and who they will be.
Walter, you talk about understanding the Greek but you are basing your argument on the English use of pronouns? Can't have your cake and eat it too. You are really straining to prove a point that has no merit here. Predestination has nothing to do with the Jews vs. the Gentiles but everything to do with those who believe whether they are Jew or Gentile. Everyone who believes is predestined to be made into the image of Christ. Period end of story. Come on how hard can it be. Do you really think the Gospel of Jesus Christ is so complicated?
"We"/"US" applies to Paul and others who believed before the Ephesians did and the "you" and "yours" applies to the Ephesians. Jews vs. Gentiles? really? I was an English major in college and taught High school English, Grammer and Composition and I have never seen or heard this kind of interpretation of the English language before. I can't figure out who you have a grudge against. Calvinists maybe. Well, as I said in another post tonight, Calvinists, Armenians and dispen-sensationalists are all wrong. Their Theology is warped and misleading.
Let's examine 1 Peter 1:1-2. This passage was grossly mistranslated by Calvinists. The Greek says things very differently.
The NKJV as with most English translations is very wrong and affects doctrine in this specific passage.
1Peter 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
1Pe 1:2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
When one who is being honest with the grammar of the Greek Texts examines this passage they will find something very different.
Young's Literal Translation is much closer to what the Greek says.
1Peter 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the CHOICE [Elect] sojourners of the dispersion of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
Notice where the word "choice" or Elect is placed. We are not "Elect" according to God's "foreknowledge" as the verse is calling the JEWS of the dispersion as being the ELECT or CHOICE. The Calvinist translators placed the word "ELECT" in the wrong location which is HUGE!!! What an incredible blunder or perhaps incredible bias. Nevertheless it is plain wrong.
2 according to a foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, to obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied!
"Foreknowledge" is an interesting word and Calvinists have created their own meaning to this word. They would have us believe that it means that God looked into the future and then choze people. The word actually means having prior knowledge as in a relationship. A person or people He knew previously. Since the word "ELECT" or Choice sojourners is clearly referring to the NATION OF ISRAEL makes it very clear that foreknowledge is referring to ISRAEL and cannot refer in any way to Gentiles/Christians.
Let's continue with the last phrase of verse 2.
" Grace to you and peace be multiplied!"
This can be correctly placed in the beginning of verse 2 to make it more clear even though it gives the same affect where it is.
2 Grace to you and peace be multiplied according to a foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, to obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
You can cross reference Deut 7:6-11 with the above especially 6-7.
Deu 7:6 "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God HAS CHOOZEN you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples on the face of the earth.
7 The LORD did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples;
8 but because the LORD loves you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore to your fathers, the LORD has brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you from the house of bondage, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
9 "Therefore know that the LORD your God, He is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and mercy for a thousand generations with those who love Him and keep His commandments;
10 and He repays those who hate Him to their face, to destroy them. He will not be slack with him who hates Him; He will repay him to his face.
11 Therefore you shall keep the commandment, the statutes, and the judgments which I command you today, to observe them.
When we examine Romans 8:28,29 & 30 we see the same thing concerning "foreknowledge".
Unfortunately most Calvinists are so bias they will not accept this simple truth.
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either no longer be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
