Author Thread: Will You Accept what the Bible teaches about Mankinds Nature?
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Will You Accept what the Bible teaches about Mankinds Nature?
Posted : 16 Apr, 2010 09:15 PM

The view one takes concerning Salvation will be determined, to a

large extent, by the view one takes concerning sin and its effects on

human nature. When Calvinists speak of man as being totally depraved,

they mean that man's nature is corrupt, perverse, and sinful

throughout. It does not mean that man is as totally wicked as he can

be. "total" is used to indicate that the WHOLE of man's being has

been affected by sin.



A. As a result of Adams transgression, men are born in sin and by

nature are spiritually dead: therefore, if they are to become God's

children and enter His kingdom, they must be born anew of the Spirit.



1. When Adam was placed in the garden of Eden, he was warned not to

eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil on the threat

of immediate SPIRITUAL death.

Genesis 2:16,17: and the Lord commanded the man, saying, "You may

freely eat of every tree on the garden; but of the tree of the

knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day you eat

of it you shall die."



2. Adam disobeyed and ate of the forbidden fruit (Gen. 3:1-7);

consequently, he brought spiritual death upon himself and upon the

whole human race.

Romans 5:12; Therefore as sin came into the world through one man

[Adam, see vs. 14] and DEATH through sin, and so death spread to all

men because all men sinned.



EPHESIANS 2:1-3 and you he MADE ALIVE, when you were DEAD through

trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of

this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit

that is now at work in the sons of disobedience. Among these we all

once lived in the passions of our flesh, following the desires of

body and mind, and so we were BY NATURE children of wrath, like the

rest of mankind.



Colossians 2:13; And you who were DEAD in trespasses and the

uncircumcision of your flesh, GOD MADE ALIVE together with him,

having forgiven us all our trespasses.



3. David confessed that he, as well as all other men, was born in

sin.



Psalm 51:5; Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did

my mother conceive me.

Psalm 58:3; The wicked go astray from the womb, the err from their

birth, speaking lies.



4. Because men are born in sin and are by nature spiritually dead,

Jesus taught that men must be born anew if they are to enter God's

kingdom.

John 3:5-7; Jesus answered, "Truly, Truly, I say unto you, unless

one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot ENTER the kingdom of

God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is

born of the Spirit is Spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you,

'YOU MUST BE BORN ANEW'" compare John 1:12,13



B. As a result of the fall, men are blind and deaf to spiritual truth.

Their minds are darkened by sin; their hearts are corrupt and evil.



Gen. 6:5; The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the

earth, and that EVERY IMAGINATION OF THE THOUGHTS OF HIS HEART WAS

ONLY EVIL CONTINUALLY.



Gen. 8:21...The imagination of man's heart is EVIL from his youth..

Ecclesiastes 9:3...The HEARTS of men are FULL OF EVIL, and madness is

in their hearts while they live...



Jeremiah 17:9; The HEART IS DECEITFUL ABOVE ALL THINGS, and

DESPERATELY CORRUPT; who can understand it?

Mark 7:21-23; "For from within, OUT OF THE HEART OF MAN, come evil

thoughts, fornication, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness,

deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these

evil things come from within, and they defile a man."



John 3:19; And this is the judgment, that the light has come into

the world, and MEN LOVED DARKNESS, rather than light because their

deeds were evil.

Romans 8:7,8; For the MIND that is set on the flesh is hostile to

God; IT does not submit to God's law, indeed it CANNOT; and those who

are in the flesh CANNOT PLEASE GOD.

1 Corinthians 2:14: The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts

of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and, HE IS NOT ABLE

TO UNDERSTAND THEM because they are spiritually discerned.



Ephesians 4:17-19: Now this I affirm and testify in the Lord, that

you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their

minds; they are DARKENED IN THEIR UNDERSTANDING, alienated from the

life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, DUE TO THEIR

HARDNESS OF HEART; they have become callous and have given themselves

up to licentiousness, greedy to practice every kind of uncleanness.



Ephesians 5:8 For once you were DARKNESS, but now you are light in the

Lord...

Titus 1:15: To the pure all things are pure, but to the corrupt and

unbelieving nothing is pure; THEIR VERY MINDS AND CONSCIENCES ARE

CORRUPTED.





C. Before sinners are born into God's kingdom through the

regenerating power of the Spirit, they are children of the Devil and

under his control; they are slaves to sin.



John 8:44 You are of YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL, and YOUR WILL is to do

your father's desires.

Ephesians 2:1,2; And you he made alive, when you were dead through

the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the

course of this world, FOLLOWING THE PRINCE OF THE POWER OF THE AIR,

the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience.



2 Timothy 2:25,26; God may perhaps grant that they will repent and

come to know the truth, and they may escape from THE SNARE OF THE

DEVIL, after being CAPTURED BY HIM TO DO HIS WILL.



1 John 3:10; By this it may be seen who are the children of God,

and who are the CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL: whoever does not do right is

not of God, nor he who does not love his brother.

1John 5:19; We know that we are of God, and the whole world is IN

THE POWER OF THE EVIL ONE.



John 8:34; Jesus answered them, "Truly , Truly, I say to you,

every one who commits sin is a SLAVE TO SIN".

Romans 6:20; When you were SLAVES OF SIN, you were free in regard to

righteousness.

Titus 3:3; For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led

astray, SLAVES to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in

malice and envy, hated by men and hating one another.





D. The reign of sin is universal; all men are under it's power;

consequently, none is righteous---not even one!



2 Chronicles 6:36; ....for there is NO MAN who does not sin...

Job 15:14-16; What is a man, that he can be clean? Or he that is

born of a woman, that he can be righteous? Behold, God puts no trust

in his holy ones, and the heavens are not clean in his sight; how

much less one who is abominable and corrupt, A MAN WHO DRINKS

INIQUITY LIKE WATER!



PSALM 130:3; If Thou, O Lord, shouldst mark iniquities, Lord,

WHO COULD STAND?

Psalm 143:2; Enter not into judgment with thy servant; for

NO MAN LIVING is righteous before Thee.

Proverbs 20:9; Who can say, "I have made my heart clean; I am pure

from my sin?"

Ecclesiastes 7:20: Surely there is NOT A RIGHTEOUS MAN ON EARTH

who does good and never sins.

Ecclesiastes 7:29; Behold, this alone I found, that God made man

upright, but they have sought out many devices.



Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every

one to his own way...

Isaiah 64:6; We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our

righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a

leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.



Romans 3:9-12; What then? are we Jews any better off? No, not at

all; for I have already charged that ALL MEN, both Jews and Greeks,

ARE UNDER THE POWER OF SIN, as it is written; "NONE is righteous, no,

not one; no one understands, no one seeks for God. All have turned

aside, together they have gone wrong; NO ONE DOES GOOD,NOT EVEN ONE."

James 3:2,8; For we all make many mistakes, and if any one makes no

mistakes in what he says he is a perfect man, able to bridle the

whole body also...but no human being can tame the tongue--

a restless evil, full of deadly poison.



I John 1:8,10; If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and

the truth is not in us..If we say we have not sinned, we make him a

liar, and his word is not in us.





E. Men left in their dead state are unable of themselves to repent,

to believe the gospel, or to come to Christ. They have no power

within themselves to change their natures or to prepare themselves for

salvation.





JOB 14:4; Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean?

There is not one.

Jeremiah 13:23; Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his

spots? Then also you can do good who are accustomed to do evil.



Matthew 7:16-18 YOU will know them by their fruits. Are grapes

gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? So, every sound tree

bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears evil fruit. A sound tree

cannot bear evil fruit, NOR CAN A BAD TREE BEAR GOOD FRUIT.

Matthew 12:33 "Either make the tree good, and its fruit good; or

make the tree bad, and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its

fruit."



John 6:44; NO ONE CAN COME TO ME UNLESS the Father who sent me

DRAWS HIM; and I will raise him up on the last day.



John 6:56; And he said, "This is why I told you that NO ONE CAN COME

TO ME UNLESS IT IS GRANTED HIM BY THE FATHER."



Romans 11:35,36; "Or who has given a gift to him that he might be

repaid?" For from him and through him and to him ARE ALL THINGS.

to him be glory forever. AMEN.



1 Corinthians 2:14; The UNSPIRITUAL MAN does not receive the gifts

of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and HE IS NOT ABLE

TO UNDERSTAND THEM because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 4:7; For who sees anything different in you? What

have you that you did not receive? If then you received it,

WHY DO YOU BOAST AS IF IT WERE NOT A GIFT?



2 Corinthians 3:5; Not that we are SUFFICIENT OF OURSELVES to claim

anything as coming from us; our sufficiency is FROM GOD.







From these Scriptures we see that we are unable of ourselves to do

anything toward gaining salvation. We must rely totally on God's

mercy and love.





Sincerely,

James

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Will You Accept what the Bible teaches about Mankinds Nature?
Posted : 17 Apr, 2010 10:17 AM

That is not Jesus talking Sir that is Calvin, Sinners know they are sinners

you would do better to go to the word of God, if Jesus says you have to do something then a m,an can do it.

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Will You Accept what the Bible teaches about Mankinds Nature?
Posted : 17 Apr, 2010 01:29 PM

Romans 5:19 SHOULD convince every Christian of the truth of Original Sin.



Adam and Eve were chosen as our perfect representatives, and so when they sinned, it was imputed to us.



WE would have done the SAME THING.



If someone STILL objects to Original sin, after reading Rom.5:19 and you think that God did NOT impute it to all mankind then WHY



WHY does the EXACT SAME curses that Adam and Eve received, ALSO happen to EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO EVER LIVED?



And if your complaint is "That's not fair", well, you can complain, just don't do it too loudly because imputed righteousness is the only way we can be saved!



We are damned for Adam and Eve's sin, and all our own actual sins, but we can only be saved by someone else's, righteous act.



In Christ,



James

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Will You Accept what the Bible teaches about Mankinds Nature?
Posted : 17 Apr, 2010 04:23 PM

I would like to know hat your point is has no bearing on being born again, you know what should a good clue follow Jesus example.

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DontHitThatMark

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Will You Accept what the Bible teaches about Mankinds Nature?
Posted : 17 Apr, 2010 05:15 PM

"Your" interpretation of original sin...might want to clarify that point, because I read the same verses in a completely different way. I wonder who is wrong? If it could be me, then it could be you.



:peace::peace:

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Will You Accept what the Bible teaches about Mankinds Nature?
Posted : 17 Apr, 2010 05:46 PM

PhilipJohn said:



That is not Jesus talking Sir that is Calvin, Sinners know they are sinners



you would do better to go to the word of God, if Jesus says you have to do something then a m,an can do it.





James replies:



There are 50 verses of SCRIPTURE in this topic that tell us what the nature of man is , and you say it is "Calvin talking"?



I think it would more honest if you just answered my question and said: "No, I will not accept what the Bible teaches about fallen mankind."





To act like 50 verses of Scripture is "Calvin talking" is ridiculous. First off, I can tell you do not know church history on this subject.



If you wish to blame someone, then you need to go back ONE THOUSAND YEARS BEFORE Calvin was born.



Augustine is the man you wish to blame. But, you also have dozens and dozens of Theologians and hundreds of thousands of Christians who came after him, who AGREE.



You have the Reformation itself, which was the most amazing time in church history, and when Christians got to read the Bible for themselves, THEY AGREED that fallen mankind does NOT have the ability to repent and trust in Christ.



A hundred years AFTER the Reformation we have the followers of James Arminius coming to the churches and saying that they had five points that they did not like that the churches all taught.



THAT is HOW we got the "five points", and it was the five points of Arminianism. Before the followers of James Arminius, I was just a Christian. Now, I am labeled a Calvinist, because I believe what all protestants believed during the Reformation, and what the Early Christians also believed.



Now as to your second comment: "If Jesus says you have to do something, then a man can do it."



John 6:44 (Jesus speaking) "NO one CAN come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him."



Jesus repeats this same statement in verse 65.



Jesus told Nicodemus that he could not even SEE the kingdom of God until AFTER he had been born again.



you need to read those 50 verses of scripture again, and admit that DEAD men, can't do anything. Salvation is %100 God, and not a 50/50 thing where your decision comes first.



In Christ,



James

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Will You Accept what the Bible teaches about Mankinds Nature?
Posted : 17 Apr, 2010 05:48 PM

it is NOT my interpretation of Original sin.



I don't want ANY private interpretation.



What I am telling you is the consensus of the vast majority of Christians for the last two thousand years.





In proverbs it says, "There is wisdom in many counselors"



Remember?





In Christ,



James

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Will You Accept what the Bible teaches about Mankinds Nature?
Posted : 17 Apr, 2010 06:03 PM

Their is no doctrine outside of Calvinism, concerning original sin,



The bible is clear how to enter the family of God and I see no truth in reformed theology.



You will never get faith from man made doctrine, and you can not be saved without faith, it is very simple

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Will You Accept what the Bible teaches about Mankinds Nature?
Posted : 17 Apr, 2010 07:34 PM

Phillipjohn said:



Their is no doctrine outside of Calvinism, concerning original sin,



James replies:



That is incorrect. This idea was held by the early christians, and then the Roman Catholic church, and then the Reformers, and most protestants today.





PhillipJohn continues:



The bible is clear how to enter the family of God and I see no truth in reformed theology.



James replies:



You do not know Reformed theology. If you did, you would realize that MANY of the things you believe agree with Reformed thinking.



PHillipJohn continues:



You will never get faith from man made doctrine, and you can not be saved without faith, it is very simple





James replies:



I agree. Faith is a gift from God (Eph.2:8,9)



That is the part you and I are disagreeing on.



YOU are saying that fallen man has the ability to HAVE faith on His own, and I am taking the historic Christian position and telling you that GOD gives faith to whomever He pleases, and THEN that particular person HAS faith, because God first gave it to them.



In Christ,



James

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Will You Accept what the Bible teaches about Mankinds Nature?
Posted : 17 Apr, 2010 07:43 PM

Well I will go by the bible, it is funny how you mention denominations and of across reformed theology, those things do not make truth.



The bible contradicts your statements every time, and you are missing something concerning faith, all men have been given a measure of faith, but when one need to be born again they need the word of God for salvation and if one has an ear to hear and then will believe and do as the word instructs they will be born again.

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DontHitThatMark

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Will You Accept what the Bible teaches about Mankinds Nature?
Posted : 17 Apr, 2010 08:37 PM

Hmm...well the vast majority of Christians "for thousands of years" prayed to idols too....I guess the consensus of believers makes stuff true instead of God's word. I'm pretty sure "vast majorities" can be majorly wrong. But still...the point I'm trying to get across is that if you believe that the bible can be misinterpreted by me...then what makes you immune to doing the same thing? I guess you're just better/smarter/special then? :rolleyes:





:peace::peace:

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