Author Thread: Law or grace or both together?
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Law or grace or both together?
Posted : 27 Feb, 2010 07:49 AM

At the slight chance of being tared and fathered,{Just a joke!} I would like to present the following for your consideration..

Are we under the "Law"? or under

"grace"? Many are confused! Are the Ten Commandments

abolished? Does Grace do away with law? Just because our sins are forgiven, and we are no longer under the death penalty of the Law for our sins -- are we now FREE from the Law � are

we FREE to live however we please, without fear of future

consequences if we break God's Law? Here is what Scripture says..

Picture the common teaching in your own mind, if you can. A nation of Israelites,

sinning, struggling under grievous bondage. Over them a harsh, stern, monstrous law, a terrible

yoke of bondage.{The Ten Commandments} To redeem them from such miserable bondage, God sent Jesus Christ to do away with law!

Now, does that picture make much sense? Of course NOT!

There is something flagrantly wrong with this concept of God! It pictures God the Father

as having made a mistake -- as being a cruel, harsh Monster.

It pictures Jesus Christ as a "smart-alecky" young man who came to do away with His

Father's Law. Christ is pictured as having more wisdom and knowledge than His Father, for He

saw that the Law was a harsh yoke of bondage. So He came to abolish it -- nail it to the cross!

Such a picture totally distorts the mercy, love, and goodness of God!

IF There Were No Law . . .

Think for a moment! Let's just suppose that God did abolish His Law for some

inexplicable reason. Suppose He decided to do away with it. What then? Do you realize what

this would mean?

This would mean that there would be no law against committing idolatry, worshipping

false gods, cursing, swearing, breaking God�s Sabbath -- but more, it would mean that murder

would be all right; stealing would be acceptable as well; lust, adultery, rape, every sex crimelying,

cheating, bearing false witness -- all these things would be all right!

There would be no law against them!

And since there would be no law, there would, of course, be no punishment!

Sin would be impossible, since "sin is the transgression of the law" (I John 3:4). If no

law, there could be no transgression -- no sin!

You would be living in a world where EVERYTHING GOES! Nothing would be wrong.

There would be no definition of right from wrong. Anything you had in mind to do would be

acceptable. If you murdered your mother-in-law, you could get away with it! There would be

no such thing as a judge, or a cell, a prison, an execution, or any kind of penalty -- and no

hellfire!

You could do exactly as you please, regardless of how it affects other people!

You could be a homicidal maniac, and no one

would be able to have you arrested. And, spiritually, God would not be able to punish sinners since sin would not exist!

If the spiritual Law of God were nailed to the cross, then from that time nineteen hundred

years ago to the present, today, sin would be nonexistent! And there would be no need of a Savior -- since there would be no need to be saved from sin! Hitler, Mussolini, and all the other arch-criminals -- Dillinger, "Pretty Boy Floyd," Al Capone, and all the rest -- would not be guilty, in God's sight!

Now, does that really make sense?

And if there is no sin, from the time of Christ to the present, then there is no such thing as

a sinner, no need for repentance, no need for forgiveness, no need for mercy or pardon -- no need for grace!

But if you follow the reasoning of the no-law advocates through to its logical conclusion,

that is where you are finally left -- that is where you end up!

But this is not the teaching of Jesus!

Was Christ "at odds" with His Father in heaven, as some say? Was it God's Law that

separated man from God -- or was it sin? Just what is the Law? And what is this thing called

Grace? And where does Sin enter the picture? Why did Christ have to die? What -- who -- was

nailed to the cross?

If enough interest will continue later......

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Law or grace or both together?
Posted : 2 Mar, 2010 10:46 AM

dear canada, amen

ole cattle

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daniel12345

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Law or grace or both together?
Posted : 5 Mar, 2010 03:56 AM

Hi,

short answer, under grace. Only 2 persons is under law (covenant of work), i.e. Adam and Eve.

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Law or grace or both together?
Posted : 6 Mar, 2010 09:35 AM

It must be understood as to whose law you are speaking about. Many people get it all wrong as to the law Paul speaks about in his writings, and what law Jesus Christ fulfilled. There are two sets of laws...



Paul states we are under grace and not the fulfilling of the law. So whose law is he spakeing about?



1. Paul is speaking about being under grace as it pretains to Moses' laws which were ritual, ceremonial, sacrifice offerings, meating and blood offering, and drinking, purificaion offerings. These are the LAWS we as believers are NO LONGER to obey or follow. These are the laws Jesus Christ fulfilled in His sacrifical death on the cross. These are the laws as believers we are no longer under, but we are now THE GRACE OF JESUS CHRIST TOOK CARE when He died on the cross and gave OF THIS SACRIFICE OFFERING. These are the laws the Jews were following and Paul spoke against especially the law of circumcisim, as a means to please God when the Jews followed wholeheartedly as a way to salvation.



2. The death of Jesus Christ DID NOT do away with God's LAW OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS which we are to obey... The Thou Shall Not's.. these are the laws as Paul writes in Romans, and other writings, when we obey, we establish the law God's Ten Commandments , which are forever, these are the ROYAL LAWS James speaks about.And Jesus Christ DID NOT FUILFILL THESE LAWS IN HIS DEATH!



The Ten Commandments points us to our sins as Paul write in Roman 6-8 , and many of his writings. The Ten Commandments were given to Mose by God which summarizes God's requirments of us as believers. They are God's will, His words, and precepts and concepts and expectations of us. Paul says in Romans, he never knew sins until he knew the law... for the law(Ten Commandments) is holy and spiritual, and points us to our sins and to Christ.



In the Law of Moses the Jews were able to put thier faith forth in God by observing the laws God gave to Moses (Mossica Law)which were written in a book, but when God gave His Ten Commandments to Moses, God wrote them on tables of stone.



Jesus Christ fulfilled the laws of Moses, we no longer have need to make sacrifices, or do rituals ceremonies to please God or atonement for our sins, Christ paid it all on the cross with His suffering death and blood. Christ has not fulfilled the Ten Commandments, He fulfilled the ceremonial laws of Moses. There is a very big difference between the Ten Commandment Laws of God, and the Ceremonial/ritual laws of Moses.



The purpose of the Old Testiment law of Moses was to prepare the way for the coming of Jesus Christ. The purpose of the Ten Commandment laws of God is to show man his sins before a holy God, but our victory over sin is through Jesus Christ, and our love for Jesus Christ as we have been commanded to love as God so loved the world.



Therefore, we, as believers are uder the LAW OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, which are the laws of the Lord. And we are through the blood of Jesus Christ UNDER THE LAW OF GRACE, in that, while we were yet sinners Jesus died for our sins and we no longer have to make sacrifice of blood, or drink or meat offerings, or do rituals or have ceremonies to atone our sins as the Jews in the OT, we can now go before God in prayer and repent of our sins.



Praise God!:applause:



ella

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Law or grace or both together?
Posted : 6 Mar, 2010 09:51 AM

Her Paul is speaking about the Law of the Ten Commandements: Romans chapter 7:

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary. I would not have known sin except through the law. For i would not have known covetiousness unless the law had said, You shall not covet. But sins, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desires. For apart from the law sin was dead. I was alive once without the law, but whne the commandment came, sin revived and I died. And the commandment, whcih was to bring life, I found to bring death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. Therefore, the law is holy and just and good.

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