Walter, who determines and exactly what makes that determiniation valid as well? (what you wrote..." not considered as being trustworthy because of the numerous contradictions and errors in history.") Do we have that much concise evidence that "all" of the other books have no validity?
While there is conclusive evidence that the New Testament Gospels are accurate, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.... much of there recount is relatively the same with history, although each of them do have something different to add. Is that we believe them to be valid, because of the similarities of the history they provide, or that the period of time could be confirmed? I don't know, I was just reading through hear, and those questions came to mind.
Sorry, Arch... I couldn't answer your questions, but I had some myself.
Ok Arch I tried to look it up by pillar and foundation of truth and this is what scripture came up. It does not state the scripture is the pillar and foundation of truth it is God's household, the church of the living God. This is my understanding on what the scripture is saying.
your question:
Also where in Scripture does it say that Scripture is "the Pillar
and Foundation of Truth" (not just "useful")?
1 Timothy 3:15 (New International Version)
15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to
conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church
of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth
1 Timothy 3:15 (kjv)
15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
your 2nd question: I don't know of any scripture to my knowledge and understanding.
Also where in Scripture does it say that some books should be taken out of The Old Testament and no longer considered inspired ( Maccabees...etc )?
The simple answer is that the Old Testament books as we have like in the NKJV were handed down through each generation since Moses and at no time were the "other" books contained or ever considered as part of the OT Texts. Additionally when the Jewish Scribes translated the Hebrew OT into Greek, thet translated all the same books and at no time were the "other" controversial books included.
We also know that the Earliest Church Fathers did not quote from any scriptures other than what we have today like in the NKJV.
This is not recorded anywhere in the OT and may have come from the traditional teaching of Debarim Rabba, sec. ii., fol. 263, 1: �Samael, that wicked one, the prince of the satans, carefully kept the soul of Moses, saying: When the time comes in which Michael shall lament, I shall have my mouth filled with laughter. Michael said to him: Wretch, I weep, and thou laughest. Rejoice not against me, O mine enemy, because I have fallen; for I shall rise again: when I sit in darkness, the Lord is my light;
Also, this reference to Michael was said by Origen to be founded on a Jewish work called �The Assumption of Moses,� the first part of which was lately found in an old Latin translation at Milan but this may not likely.
Or it is most probable, that the Apostle took this account concerning Michael, and that of the prophesying of Enoch, from an ancient tradition preserved and well known among the Jews.
Regardless of whether it came from Enoch, tradition, or another source it is not recorded in the Old Testament at all. Yet the event is recorded in the New Testament and therefor considered part of Scripture.
Well...the OT does kinda imply something happened, because it says no man knows where Moses's grave is, and Moses had his body when he appeared with Elijah....but we're heading off topic...I'll be quiet now.
Paul, raised a Pharisee, said: "Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all." Colossians 3:11. In Christ Old and New Testaments are bound together and all the promises are now to be fulfilled in Spiritual Israel.
Unless otherwise specified, all Scripture is taken from the King James Version
Let me apologize for giving you and actually everyone reading my reply, some incorrect information regarding the Apocraphyl books.
Among the Jews those books were never considered as inspired by God. However when the OT was translated into Greek, the Septuagint, those books were also translated.
Additionally a few of the Early Church fathers quoted a few passages from them but not a lot. However, Jesus and the Apostles NEVER quoted from any of those controversial books.
The Jewish Council of 80 AD removed some of The Old Testament Books because they were too "Christian". Their "reasoning" wa that their were no longer any "prophets" after Ezra and thus those books were not inspired. When The Septaugint was written (in Greek) those books were in them (Macabees included).
Also there were many other books and letters being used by The Early Church in their Mass that were eventually not entered into The New Testament.
Again...The Church used what She knew to be Truth to compare against what was in those letters and books.
As for The Pillar and Foundation of Truth...Yes...The Church is The Pillar and Foundation of Truth. She is where Christ Deposited The Faith and Commanded to "Hold Fast" and "Keep Uncorrupted" until His Return.
We run into trouble when we use Scripture Only and use our "own" interpretations as to what Scripture is telling us. A book without a Teacher to correct and guide us is asking for Errors!
There are many questions that Scripture does not answer either directly or implicitly.
Again...Scripture does not tell us which books or letters we should allow into The New Testament. It was The Pillar and Foundation of All Truths (The Church) that Decide The Canon for The New Testament.
Sorry Walter...you can put Lipstick on a Pig, but it is still a Pig. Oink! :ROFL: I Love Ya Brother!
"The Assumption of Moses" is one of over 300 letters and books circulating at that time.
The Jewish Talmud (spelling?) I believe is The Oral Tradition passed on by word of mouth. Many of these were later written down and became part of written history.
The findings at Nag Hammadi (again I am not certain about spelling) of many a manuscript that were presumed lost is facinating reading. The Catholic Church had to make a decision because there were so many letters and books being read at the Masses that were not inspired and were leading to Apostacy.
Some of these that were written by The Gnostics were way out there. Gnosticism had been around in one form or other before Christ and once it collided with Christianty it spread as a fungus at its root, and claimed to be the only true form of Christianity -- with an esoteric doctrine appealing to the "elites" or elite wanna-be.
:goofball:...I'm sorry Arch....but this is ridiculous. I'm not allowed to interpret the bible, but a church full of humans just like me is allowed? Isn't that the same thing? My church interprets the bible too:goofball:. I think the part where you're mistaken is that you think "God's church" is confined within four catholic walls...
Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; 26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; 27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: 28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. 29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Revelation 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. 6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. 7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
God's true church is spread throughout Christianity. I believe there will be a time when God Himself will call His followers out into one body....but I can guarantee it wo...:prayingm::angel: Anyway...the identifying mark of God's true church is "which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus". Just keep listening for the call.
