Author Thread: What is Apostolic Succession? What is an Apostle?
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What is Apostolic Succession? What is an Apostle?
Posted : 19 Feb, 2010 11:41 AM

Hi Everyone,



PhillipJohn had asked a question pertaining to what an Apostle is. Here is a study i did regarding this some time ago. This will address Apostolic Succession and the definition of what it mean to be an "apostle".



What is Apostolic Succession? Is it Biblical?

Apostolic Succession is the belief that the Apostles of Jesus passed on the power and authority given to them by Christ to their disciples and so on and so on. The Roman Catholic Church makes this claim of an unbroken line from Peter to the present Pope. However when we examine the scriptures we do not find this authority. We actually find the contrary. There are also others who claim to be Apostles OF Jesus Christ in modern times.

Let me say right up front that it is impossible for anyone to become an Apostle "OF" Jesus Christ unless Jesus comes to Earth and appoints you personally. In each case where Christ appointed an Apostle, that Apostle received supernatural powers.



Let us first examine what the term "Apostle" means.

G652

apostolos pronounced ap-os'-tol-os

From G649; a delegate; specifically an ambassador of the Gospel; officially a commissioner of Christ ("apostle"), (with miraculous powers): - apostle, messenger, he that is sent.



The meaning is "one who is sent" with the authority *** OF THE SENDER.*** It is NOT an office like a Bishop, Pastor or Elder. It is important to understand this. The little word "OF" is the key to knowing whose apostle you are.



There were all together 13 Apostles OF Christ, then finally down to 12. Judas as we know betrayed Christ and killed himself. So who was the replacement for Judas? Who later became an Apostle "OF" Christ? This means that it is Christ who must appoint that person directly and personally in order to be HIS Apostle. The word "OF" is WHO personally appointed that Apostle.

Paul's own testimony tell us.

Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead), NKJV

On the road to Damascus Paul had an encounter.

Act 22:6 "Now it happened, as I journeyed and came near Damascus at about noon, suddenly a great light from heaven shone around me.

7 And I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?'

8 So I answered, 'Who are You, Lord?' And He said to me, 'I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting.'

9 "And those who were with me indeed saw the light and were afraid, but they did not hear the voice of Him who spoke to me.

10 So I said, 'What shall I do, Lord?' And the Lord said to me, 'Arise and go into Damascus, and there you will be told all things which are appointed for you to do.'

When speaking to King Agrippa, Paul gave more details concerning this account.

Act 26:14 And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.'

15 So I said, 'Who are You, Lord?' And He said, 'I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.

16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you.

17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you,

Act 26:18

to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.'NKJV

There is no question that it was Paul who was appointed by Jesus which made Paul an "Apostle OF Jesus Christ".



But what about Mattias?



While the Disciples were still waiting for the Holy Spirit to descend upon them and give them power as Christ commanded, they appeared to get impatient concerning replacing Judas Iscariot. Consider that the Apostles were not yet with power of the Holy Spirit and so they moved in their flesh and not in the Spirit as they did not possess Him as yet.

Act 1:21 "Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

22 beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection."

23 And they proposed two: Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

24 And they prayed and said, "You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen

25 to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place."

26 And they cast their lots, and the lot fell on Matthias. And he was numbered with the eleven apostles.



Notice that the apostles made an "ASSUMPTION" that Jesus had chosen one of the two men they mentioned. They were in serious error here as Jesus did not choose either of these men. If Jesus had wanted either of these two men then why didn't HE pick one of them while He was still here for 40 days before HIS Ascention?

So though Matthias was appointed an apostle of the Gospel by the Apostles, he was still not an Apostle "OF" Christ. He was an apostle of an apostle, that is all and he did not have the same powers the original 11 had and that Paul also was given by Christ. How can we confirm that there were only 12 Apostles OF Jesus? See below.



Rev 21:14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.



One of the things in scripture you should note is that the Apostles never had the power or ability to pass on their specific powers. Yes they chose leaders and yes they had disciples and yes they passed on certain "gifts" to individuals but no one possessed their unique powers of transferring gifts and they did not have the power or authority to appoint someone to be an Apostle "OF" Jesus Christ as only Jesus can personally do that as the scriptures demonstrated.

I want you to notice this scripture below. The historical context is that back then there were people "claiming" to be apostles OF Jesus Christ yet they were not. Remember Jesus only appointed 12.



Rev 2:2 "I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars; NKJV



Can we apply this today? I believe so as there are people in modern churches today that also claim to be Apostles "OF" Jesus Christ. How do you test them as they did back then? A true Apostle "OF" Jesus Christ has supernatural gifts one of which is the ability to lay hands on EVERYONE and heal them instantly without exception. Take someone you know who is crippled badly and see if they can get them to get up and walk instantly and be 100% healed. They can cast out demons, they can drink deadly poisons and not get hurt or die and they can handle deadly snakes and will not be injured or die. But as scriptures tell us, Jesus only appointed 12.



Blessings!

Walter

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What is Apostolic Succession? What is an Apostle?
Posted : 21 Feb, 2010 04:53 AM

We cannot discount the apostleship of Matthias based on the silence of the scriptures concerning him. Just because we do not have much to read about him does not mean that such silence, in itself, is evidence that his election to apostleship was unsanctioned and unendorsed by the Lord. Very few of the disciples in the Upper Room were famous. Scripture says not a single word for more than half of the apostles after Pentecost. For example, scripture has little to say about Simon the Zealot. Yet we do not discount him as an apostle.



As for Peter making a mistake, where is the reproof of a �bad decision� in the scriptures? Where does it say the decision was made in haste? It does not exist. It was a suggestion by Peter to the others in the room. They all agreed to the decision to cast lots.

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klmartin62

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What is Apostolic Succession? What is an Apostle?
Posted : 21 Feb, 2010 06:28 AM

Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.



The Bible clearly shows that they were told to stay there and wait for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Not once does it tell them to throw dice to appoint an Apostle.



Not only did they not wait, they made up a criteria for an Apostle. Jesus did not send out Mattias, the Apostles did, thus he could not have been an Apostle of Jesus Christ. This takes a personal direction from Christ himself, just as Saul experienced.



Blessings,

Leon

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What is Apostolic Succession? What is an Apostle?
Posted : 21 Feb, 2010 06:51 AM

Question?



What did Jesus mean when He told Peter "...what you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven..."? The Rabbi's spoke that way when they would make a Law binding on the people and when they dissolved the Law they "loosened" it (non-binding). Is it possible that Jesus was saying to Peter "what you make Law here on earth...I will back you up on it." Like Power of Attorney.



It is interesting to note that throughout The Acts of the Apostles...Peter would have the Last Word. There were a lot of "Peter said...". But, then again...you'd expect that from The Vicar of Christ's Church.

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klmartin62

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What is Apostolic Succession? What is an Apostle?
Posted : 21 Feb, 2010 08:06 AM

Other than Peter being a "character", he was also Apostle to the circumcised, or Jews. Paul was to the Gentiles. I would say that this alone would make both of them a step above the others, however we see that both were held accountable by the others. Peter even took a rebuke by Paul over his actions in front of Jews.



The binding and loosing scripture goes hand in hand with the forgiveness of sins scripture, in my opinion. I think this was something Jesus did for all the Apostles, not just Peter. I do not think it gave him the power to make decisions for Jesus. Especially not this one. Paul played way too important a roll in the early church for someone else to be appointed instead.



It is interesting to think about all that was being done back then. We usually mess up when we try to form doctrine from Acts. Remember, they were still trying to learn what to do without Jesus there to guide them. There is an old Seminary saying that goes, "Don't teach the experiences of the Apostles, experience their teachings". When we get away from this, we are making mistakes.



Be blessed,

Leon

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Posted : 21 Feb, 2010 07:47 PM

Matthew 18:15 (KJV)

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.



Brother in this context is meant as a fellow believer



[16] But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.



Verse 16 is referring to establishing a fact in a Jewish court

Deut. 19:15 (KJV)

One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.



[17] And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.



Let him be cast out of the church at least for a while as a heathen or tax collector.

See 1 Cor. 5:1-5 and 2 Cor. 2:5-11



[18] Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. [19] Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. [20] For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.



The words bind and loose are literally �prohibit� and �permit.� The terms were used in 1st century Judaism to mean �prohibit� and �permit.� Josephus mentions in War of the Jews 1:5:2 that the Pharisees �became themselves the real administrators of the public affairs; they banished and reduced whom they pleased; they bound and loosed [men] at their pleasure��



Jesus used the familiar terms himself in Matt 16:19 and Matt 18:18. By these words He practically invested them with the same authority as that which he found belonging to the scribes and Pharisees who �bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.� That is, loose them as they have the power to do.



Jesus is also granting His disciples the same authority as the Levitical priests and the judge who shall be in those days (Deut. 17:8-12) to make decisions for the new community of believers in Christ. However Christ does instruct His disciples to obey the commandments of the Pharisees in Matt 23:2-3 because they sit in the seat of Moses.



V.19, Jesus is saying �if two or more of you agree on any religious or community issue, then your decision for them that asked the question will be as if it came directly from my Father in heaven.� Jesus strengthens this by promising his own presence in these situations.



Vs 20 Is a reference to Malachi 3:16



�Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.�



Concerning Peter



Acts 1:15-16 (KJV)

And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,) [16] Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.



What did David say by divine influence of the Holy Ghost? Peter is referring to prophesy concerning Judas!

Psalm 109:8 (KJV)

Let his days be few; and let another take his office.



Peter and the approximate 120 are not out of line for casting lots. We know that God has the final say according to his word when casting lots. The prophecy concerning Judas is completed. And with the authority given to the disciples to bind (permit) and loose (forbid) Matthias is appointed to replace Judas.



Acts 1:26 (KJV)

And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.



The Word of God says that Matthias was numbered with the eleven apostles.

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klmartin62

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What is Apostolic Succession? What is an Apostle?
Posted : 22 Feb, 2010 12:48 AM

The word of God also says that there are only 12 Apostles and that Paul was an Apostle chosen not by MAN but but Jesus Christ Himself.



So who do we trust more, Jesus or Peter?

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Posted : 22 Feb, 2010 03:36 AM

Where does Scripture say "Only" Twelve Apostle?



Rapio! You have either "immersed" yourself in Christianity's History or have been reading Scripture very carefully with an Unbiased Heart. Christ knew what we Men would do with His Plan of Salvation if we were left to our own accord. That is why He declared a Vicar and also Sent The Counselor to Insure Safevouching of His Church and Teachings.

You are correct as to all of the Apostles had the Right and Authority to "Bind" or "Loosen". That Right and Power and Authority died with them. It was Only Peter that could "Transfer" his Rights and Authority and Powers to the next in Line of this Dynasty that Jesus started in Peter.

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klmartin62

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What is Apostolic Succession? What is an Apostle?
Posted : 22 Feb, 2010 05:05 AM

Rev 21:14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.



What did David say by divine influence of the Holy Ghost? Peter is referring to prophesy concerning Judas!



Psalm 109:8 (KJV)



Let his days be few; and let another take his office.



You said:It was Only Peter that could "Transfer" his Rights and Authority and Powers to the next in Line of this Dynasty that Jesus started in Peter.



I say: Can you back that up in scripture or is it church doctrine? I ask because I seem to remember that it was Paul who wanted to go to Rome and impart a spiritual gift so that they could be established.



Be blessed,

Leon

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Posted : 22 Feb, 2010 10:24 PM

God got rid of Shebna (Bishop -- Prime Minister) and replaced him with Eliakim. The Ritual to "pass" on all Authority and Powers to the New Bishop was to

"clothe him with your robe, and gird him with your sash, and give over to him your authority.) Verse 21

The verse that shows that it was a dynasty being "passed" on from the Time of David (who was the first in this dynasty) is Verse 22

"I will place the key of the House of David on his shoulder; when he opens, no one shall shut, when he shuts, no one shall open."

When Jesus started this Dynasty with Peter he gave Peter "The Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven" signifying

much more Power and Authority.

This Dynasty is still in order today and will continue until His Return.



Isaiah 22:15

Thus says the Lord, the GOD of hosts: Up, go to that official, Shebna, master of the palace,

16

Who has hewn for himself a sepulcher on a height and carved his tomb in the rock: "What are you doing here, and what people have you here, that here you have hewn for yourself a tomb?"

17

The LORD shall hurl you down headlong, mortal man! He shall grip you firmly

18

And roll you up and toss you like a ball into an open land To perish there, you and the chariots you glory in, you disgrace to your master's house!

19

I will thrust you from your office and pull you down from your station.

20

5 On that day I will summon my servant Eliakim, son of Hilkiah;

21

I will clothe him with your robe, and gird him with your sash, and give over to him your authority. He shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22

6 I will place the key of the House of David on his shoulder; when he opens, no one shall shut, when he shuts, no one shall open.

23

I will fix him like a peg in a sure spot, to be a place of honor for his family;

24

7 On him shall hang all the glory of his family: descendants and offspring, all the little dishes, from bowls to jugs.

25

On that day, says the LORD of hosts, the peg fixed in a sure spot shall give way, break off and fall, and the weight that hung on it shall be done away with; for the LORD has spoken.

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Posted : 22 Feb, 2010 10:28 PM

klmartin62,



"Rev 21:14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb."



This does not say that there were "Only" twelve...it just says that their were twleve names on each foundation. It could be a memorial for the "Original" Twelve.

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