"Since every Rapture passage clearly tells us it is Post-Trib., are you going to ignore these clear passages because you are unable to reconcile what Jesus means about not knowing the "day or Hour"?"
Walter,
I can reconcile what Jesus means about not knowing the day or hour and His coming as a thief with that of His coming and all the cosmic disturbances announcing that coming. I would say it is you instead who is unable to reconcile it to me in order to defend your view. You post the same Scriptures over and over, which is fine, but they do not answer my question or reconcile the seemingly contrary messages that Jesus is speaking of. You cannot reconcile Jesus coming as a thief with Jesus coming preceded by signs that announce His coming, and call them one in the same. It creates a dilemma that leaves one scratching his head wondering which is it? Known or unknown?
In Matthew 24, Jesus tells us of the day and hour of His return, "knoweth no man". He then goes on to give an example of the days of Noah, and compares those days to the coming of the Son of man. Life was as usual. Life toward the end of the Trib and the judgments that are being poured upon the earth and man are anything but normal, especially life as usual. Jesus' Second Coming will not be a time when the people of the earth will be living life as usual. Just as in the days of the Flood, people [those who do not know Jesus] will be caught totally off guard. Jesus compares that to His coming, "ye know not what hour your Lord doth come". A people totally off guard to what is coming their way.
Jesus goes on to speak of two in a field; one taken, one left, two women grinding at the mil; one taken, one left. This is prior to the Son of man coming at an hour you think not. Compare that with the events seen toward the end of the Trib. Who's going to be grinding at a mil? What is there to grind? Joel 1:15 tells us that the day of the Lord is at hand and that the corn is withered, there is no pasture for the cattle. He speaks of fire that has devoured the pastures, and the flame that has burned the trees of the field. These are things seen during the first Trumpet. And yet Joel tells us "Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is at hand". Joel then asks, "Is not the meat cut off before our eyes, yea, joy and gladness from the house of our God?" Think about when the antichrist puts an end to sacrifice and offering, and the subsequent events in the Temple. None of those things are life as usual or centered around normal things like eating, drinking, or getting married as mentioned in Matthew 24 and just prior to a thief in the night coming.
Now compare that to the Second Coming in which the actions of men seen in Joel 2:4-9 take place prior to the cosmic events that herald Jesus return. They're all nuts. They're running to and fro in the city. They climb up on houses. Consider too those plagues and actions of men during the vials, prior to Jesus second coming. You see some disgusting sores upon those who had the mark of the beast, rivers and fresh waters become blood, a great heat from the sun scorches men, and men are blaspheming God as a result. Can one honestly compare any of that to the days of Noah and life, just prior to the Flood? Do you see eating, drinking and marrying going on at this time?
So you have a "life as usual" and you have "a world experiencing the worst calamities ever seen on earth". Jesus says He comes at a time when life is as usual, the days of Noah, life centered around those normal things of eating, drinking and marrying, and during which He will come at an hour you think not. And you have Jesus coming to judge the world and the sinners therein after the Tribulation of those days, and He comes following those signs in the heavens that He describes.
There is no way to make the two events into one event and say Jesus comes as a thief, at an hour and day you know not, when life is as usual, AND, have Jesus come after the Tribulation when life is anything but usual, and at an hour or day that can be pretty much figured out, and in a manner that is not as a thief catching one unaware, but one in which signs precede His coming, where the earth shakes before men, the heavens tremble, the sun and moon become dark, and the stars no longer shine [Joel 2:10]. One is unexpected, and one is positively predicted.
One is when life is as usual, and one is when there is worldwide catastrophe.
So yes, Walter. I have been able to reconcile those seemingly contradictory events and come to the conclusion that there is more than one second coming. There is no other way to reconcile the two. But you my ((brother)) have been unable to answer my question on how YOU reconcile them according to your view.
Here are the passages that deal with the 144,000 Jews who were selected by God. No where do we see them as being Raptured. However we do see them in the Millennial Kingdom on Earth.
Rev 7:3 saying, "Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads."
4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:
Then 12,000 from each tribe is listed in scripture.
The next passage we have is this one.
Rev 14:1 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb STANDING ON MOUNT ZION, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps.
3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.
We see the context clearly places these 144,000 Jews on the Earth in the Millennial Kingdom.
