One of the phrases used in the discussion of the Resurrection and Rapture is used by Paul in 1 Thess 5:
1Thess 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. NKJV
So we see that "The Day of the Lord" comes as a thief. But did Paul make up this term or did he glean it from someone else?
Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour THE THIEF would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. NKJV
So we see that Paul did borrow this phrase, this term from Jesus who is the originator of this phrase. So why is this important?
Because Pretribulationists claim that Jesus can come at any moment for the Rapture and they use this phrase as support. Their problem is that they do not consider the CONTEXT of this phrase.
The context is "The Olivet Discourse" in Mat 24 which is concerning....... The SECOND COMING of Christ POST-Tribulational.
And Paul also used this phrase but clearly and irrefutably said that... "The DAY OF THE LORD comes as a thief in the night."
When does the Day of the Lord occur?
Acts 2: 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
So the sun and moon signs occur PRIOR to the Day of the Lord.
So when do the sun and moon signs occur?
Mat 24:29 IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
By Jesus placing the "sun and moon signs" as occurring AFTER the Tribulation and the Day of the Lord occurs AFTER the Sun and Moon signs makes it self evident that the Day of the Lord occurs AFTER the Tribulation and not before it.
What this also proves is that the teaching that Jesus can come back at any moment is completely and utterly false. Jesus' return is not imminent. His return follows specific SIGNS He gave us in various scriptures particularly in the Olivet Discourse in Mat 24 & 25.
What does this also prove?
That Jesus' coming as a thief in the night concerns His POST-Tribulational return.
What else does this prove?
That Paul, by calling the Resurrection and Rapture as an event that occurs on the Day of the Lord in 1 Thess 5:1-2 forbids any concept of a Pre-Trib Rapture and only a Post Trib Rapture.
At an "HOUR" we don't expect. What is the context of that verse?
Christ's Post-Trib coming....not an any moment rapture. Big difference.
Remember Paul expanded upon this teaching.
1Thess 5:2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.
3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober.
Here we have a contradiction "if" we take what you interpret Jesus to be meaning. How do you reconcile these two passages that deal exactly with the same issue?
Paul says that WE as Christians will not be overtaken by The Day of the Lord. In other words we will be fully aware of this day coming.
But Jesus appears to say that WE will not know andthat He comes as a thief.
How do you reconcile these two passages while maintaining consistent Established methods of Biblical interpretation?
"At an "HOUR" we don't expect. What is the context of that verse?
Christ's Post-Trib coming....not an any moment rapture. Big difference.
Remember Paul expanded upon this teaching.
1Thess 5:2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.
3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober.
Here we have a contradiction "if" we take what you interpret Jesus to be meaning. How do you reconcile these two passages that deal exactly with the same issue?"
Same answer as further down. I will add though that the Day of the Lord is included in the Trib, and is often referred to as "that day", just as the Trib or 70th week is referred to as "that day", even when both are being spoken of in the same chapter or context. I lean toward the Day of the Lord being the entire 70th week, with the great and notable part of that day being at its end.
And just WHEN are people saying "peace and safety"?
The latest I can see this occurring is when the second seal is opened and peace is taken from the earth, and in Jeremiah 30:5-7, which would be about mid-Trib.
For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.
Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
Alas! for that day [is] great, so that none [is] like it: it [is] even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. [Jeremiah 30:5-7]
And there went out another horse [that was] red: and [power] was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword. [Revelation 6:4]
"Paul says that WE as Christians will not be overtaken by The Day of the Lord. In other words we will be fully aware of this day coming.
But Jesus appears to say that WE will not know andthat He comes as a thief.
How do you reconcile these two passages while maintaining consistent Established methods of Biblical interpretation?"
Easy. :) There are two events being spoken of. One is the coming of Christ for the Church in a hour and day we do not know, and at a time in which we think not; as a thief in the night. The other is the Second Coming of Christ at a time in which we can pinpoint the day just by the events that unfold, and is heralded by events a thief would never use if he were to come quietly in the night. This is the ONLY way you can have it both ways... unknown and known. You can't reconcile it any other way. Apples and oranges. Both are fruit, but not the same. No matter how fruity they are. :goofball:
"I have to go to work."
I have to go take a nap. :laugh: Have a great and blessed day, Walter.
One of the major flaws with the claim that the Day of the Lord includes any of the Tribulation is that the very first day of the Day of the Lord cannot begin until AFTER the Sun and Moon signs. It is utterly impossible for THAT day to include any of the Tribulation.
Acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, BEFORE that great and notable day of the Lord come:
So what has to happen BEFORE the Day of the Lord comes?
The sun and moon signs occur FIRST. So when does that occur?
Mat 24:29 Immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light
So we see so very clearly that the very first day of the Lord cannot include any of the Tribulation because the scriptures irrefutably place THAT day as occurring AFTER the Sun and moon signs and Jesus stated that those sun and moon signs occur AFTER the Tribulation.
In addition to that....scripture also tells us something very exclusive about the Day of the Lord.
During the Tribulation the AntiChrist and the Abomination of Desolation are worshiped. In fact many false gods are worshiped during the Tribulation. So what does this mean?
Well here is a scripture that also precludes any possibility of any of the Tribulation being included in the Day of the Lord.
Isaiah 2:17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
The context of "THAT DAY" is about the Day of the Lord.
So again we see that the argument of the Day in the Lord including the Tribulation by Pretribulationists is a bogus argument and cannot stand in light of the Scriptures.
