"And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord; And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them." Exodus- 6: 2; 3
Wow...this is a bit challenging and sacred. I would have to say that JHWH would be the closest I could come up with for God the Father and Y'shua for Jesus....I think it kind of ties it all together in John with..."In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God and the same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him and without Him was not anything made that was made. In Him was life and the life was the light of man. And the light shineth in the darkness but the darkness comprehended it not ...And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us..." .
I will enjoy finding the answer...I'm not a theologian, just an interested by-stander.
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the AMEN, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God: (Rev.3:14)
Except that "yashua" is not Christ's name in the OT. Jehovah is the name most associated with the SON of God.
As rightly you said He was in the beginning. A good example of this, Jesus referring to Himself as Jehovah is in the Gospel of John when He was speaking to the Pharisees.
John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
In the passage above Jesus identified Himself as the Jehovah that sat at dinner with Abraham. That is why the Pharisees took up stones to kill Him. This is a great passage by the way to witness to Jehovah's Witnesses. In thier NWT bible they properly use the name Jehovan instead of Lord which further proves who Jesus is.
Gen 18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.
6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.
7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.
8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.
9 And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said, Behold, in the tent.
10 And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him.
So we see in the passage above, The LORD, along with two angels, met with Abraham. The "LORD" in Hebrew is actually Jehovah. Jehovah is the PRE-incarnate name of Jesus.
Please do not confuse that with re-incarnation. They are not the same.
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. Now let me address the issue of God the SON and God the FATHER.
John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the ..... of the Father, He has declared Him. NKJV
1John 4:12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.NKJV
The scriptures are clear in that NO ONE has ever seen GOD at any time. If Jesus is God the Father then we have a contradiction in scripture. The CONTEXT of the passage makes it clear that it is talking about God....'the Father" as the one who has never been seen, NOT the Son because Christians have seen Jesus who is the Son of God.
"So can GOD Almighty be the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost! I believe GOD is Jesus and Jesus is GOD and nothing you can say will change that. The Word is truth. Read the scriptures."
I do read the scriptures and study them deeply. Your words imply that I don't.
You are right, there is nothing I can say that will change your mind as that indicates you might not have a teachable spirit and one thing for sure is that God will not reveal His wisdom to anyone who has an unteachable spirit. I sincerely hope that is not the way you really are.
God the Father and God the Son are part of a Trinity but they are also different. The scriptures clearly state that :
1John 4:12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.NKJV So we see that no one, that is no human being has ever seen GOD....that is God ."the FATHER".
If Jesus were God the Father then the scriptures are in contradiction to your position. Please demonstrate otherwise.
When Jesus was in the garden prior to His arrest, who was He praying to?
Mark 14:36 And He said, "Abba, Father, all things are possible for You. Take this cup away from Me; nevertheless, not what I will, but what You will."
Two things you should notice.
1) Jesus was praying TO His Father. If Jesus is God the Father then He would have been praying to Himself and that would make Him a schitzophernic.
2) Notice that Jesus was asking His FATHER God to take the cup FROM Him BUT only if it was HIS Father's will and NOT HIS WILL. Notice two different wills here.
Who was Jesus surrendering His will to?
If Jesus is God the FATHER then Jesus would be a schitzophernic.
So as we can see, Jesus is not God the Father though He is God the SON.He is the second person of the Trinity.
Also.
Exod 6:2-3 2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD: 3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them. (KJV)
One of the things I have learned is that God's revelation through His Word has been progressive. It has been built "line upon line, precept upon precept" over many centuries. To properly interpret God's revelation to man, we have to start at the beginning, and build the foundation from the very first things revealed in Scripture. Everything else must be built progressively on the foundation IN THE SAME ORDER each new revelation was given, using the grammatical historical method. All new revelation is built upon previous revelation, and assumes the reader/hearer is familiar with, and has a proper understanding of, prior revelation. Without a proper understanding of previous revelation, the next layer of revelation cannot be understood properly. Here is an example of progressive revelation.
Exod 6:2-3
2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD:
3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
(KJV)
The name "Jehovah" is a key element in Deut. 6:4, "Hear O Israel, the LORD (Jehovah) our God is one." Yet, we see here that the sacred name was not revealed before Moses.
Here is another example. When we look at Gen. 1, where God revealed Himself through Moses using plural personal pronouns ("let US make man in OUR image"), we must interpret this statement WITHOUT appealing to Deut 6:4! Why? Because of the order of revelation. The original readers of Genesis did NOT have Deuteronomy to compare. And, since the creation account was passed down to Moses via verbal tradition, neither did Adam, Eve, or anyone before the exodus know of the later revelation of Deut 6:4. From the creation until the exodus, as far as we know from Scripture, the revelation of God in Gen. 1 was known and understood by God's people. But, the revelation of God in Deut. 6:4 was not know (as far as we know from Scripture) until after Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt. Therefore, Deut 6:4 must be interpreted in light of Gen. 1, and not the other way around.
Genesis one introduces us to God. It assumes no prior knowledge of God. We must simply accept it at face value, not seek to find a way to make it conform to what we think Deut. 6:4 teaches. It provides the foundation on which we can build.
In our interpretation of any given passage, we must keep in mind that the intended hearers of that particular revelation only knew what had been revealed up until that point in time, and did not have knowledge of later revelation. We must interpret these passages with ONLY the resources available to the intended audience. In short, interpret it as they would have interpreted it. Since any revelation in Scripture was originally intended for a particular historical audience, we must put ourselves in their shoes and interpret the new revelation as they would interpret it. The true interpretation of a passage is normally the one that conforms to this method. There are exceptions to this, however, when cryptic prophetic revelation is given. However, we are not dealing with prophecy here, but with God's revealing Himself to His people in plain terms.
So, let's start "in the beginning."
Gen 1:1
1 In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heaven and the earth.
(KJV)
The Hebrew word for God (Elohim) used here is plural. That is the very first thing we learn about God in the Bible! In Hebrew, we have a very strange construction here. While Elohim is the plural form of "God," the Hebrew text adds "eth" (himself). (This is not translated in most English versions). Literally, it says "in the beginning Gods [plural] Himself [singular] created..." No further explanation is given for this seeming contradiction in number until we get to verses 26-27, where we find a similar apparent contradiction in grammatical number.
Gen. 1:26,27
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
(KJV)
Again, we have a similar situation. In verse 26 God is referred to using plural personal pronouns and possessives (us & our). Yet, in verse 27 singular personal pronouns and possessives are used of God (His, He), along with the plural "Elohim." Verse 26 begs the question, whom was Elohim speaking to when He said "let us make man in our image and after our likeness?" The answer is clear in verse 27, that He was speaking to Himself, because man was created BY God and in God's own image, (not the image of angels, or created by angels). The only logical conclusion is that Elohim is a plurality of persons, that Elohim as a plurality created mankind, and that mankind in some way manifests this plurality of the Godhead.
1 Timothy 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
James 3:13 � Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
1 Corinthians 2:1 � And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6 � Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Is quoting scriptures not relevant to the discussion the best response you can make? Or is it that you do not like being proven wrong on an issue?
You know....this is a Bible discussion forum where people discuss various issues, doctrines , theology and ideas. This normally requires open and honest communication. Well that's the way it's suppose to be.
Let them praise thy great and terrible name ;for it is holy.-----Psalm-99:3
Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee,O Lord;thou art great , and thy name is great in might. Jeremiah-10:6
That at the name of JESUS every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,to the glory of God the Father.
Walter, I believe this was intended to be fun, light, not a challenge, argument, or insulting of a Young girl--as "unteachable"
Please read James 3
1Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. ...
5Likewise the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark. 6The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.
..., 8but no man can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison.
9With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God's likeness. 10Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should not be. 11Can both fresh water and salt[a] water flow from the same spring? 12My brothers, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.
Two Kinds of Wisdom
13Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom.
14But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth.
15Such "wisdom" does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil.
16For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.
17But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere.
18Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness.
