Author	Thread: 1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean?
Admin	1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean? Posted : 7 Dec, 2009 11:23 AM Here is another article addressing the bad English translation due to Calvinistic bias of the translators. This is also a very important article and well worth the time to read and study it. http://www.pfrs.org/commentary/1Peter1_1.pdf Blessings! Walter Post Reply
View Profile History	1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean? Posted : 9 Dec, 2009 11:17 AM Peace 1964 and Steve, Neither one of you has disproved the case made in the article. You are still relying upon your private interpretations and not understanding the Grammar of the Greek. Very typical of Calvinists. The article I posted is 100% accurate. Did either of you actually STUDY the article and look at the Greek for yourself? Or did you just poo poo the article because it disagrees with your theology? Do either of you actually study Greek in any formal manner? I hope you don't think that having a Strong's concordance qualifies. ;-) Let's do this. Here is one passage in question. Please tell us where did the translators go wrong? [Don't worry I'll help you.] 1 Peter 1:1-2 NKJV 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 ELECT according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied. Most translations have the word ELECT in verse TWO as well. Now here is Young's Literal Translation from the Greek. 1Peter 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to THE CHOICE sojourners of the dispersion of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 according to a foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, to obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied! YLT Notice that the word "ELECT" does NOT appear in verse TWO? WHY? Because in the GREEK text it appears in verse ONE.... NOT two. Do you understand the Grammatical difference this makes in whom Peter is referring to? Let's look at the passage in a proper grammatical English translation. 1 Peter 1:1-2 PFRS Translation 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the chosen refugees of the Diaspora in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 Grace to you, and may peace be multiplied according to the former knowing of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: "Grace to you and peace be multiplied is what is called an "Independent Clause". In the Greek it does not matter where it is placed as the "Dependent Clauses" ( the rest of the clauses in verse two) are as the word means... "dependent" upon the Independent clause. Do you understand what this means and it's application? [ I haven't even touched on the word "foreknowledge" as yet.] Do you see how the grammar of the Greek text when properly translated gives us the correct interpretation of this passage? Do you have the humility to admit that the Calvinist interpretation of this passage has been in great error? "When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest." Blessings! Walter Post Reply
View Profile History	1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean? Posted : 10 Dec, 2009 04:54 PM So what your telling me is that of all the thousands of greek bible interpreters and scholars over hundreds of years you and your pastor and the people on this website have"discovered the fatal flaw of calvinism" ha ha......well I guess everyone can just throw away their King James and for that matter all other english translations.......never mind...luther.....spurgeon.....moody.....calvin......augustine.....sproul.....piper......the puritans......most of the founding fathers.......hundreds of thousands of people world wide........because Walters solved the problem.......no thanks man......I know the depths of my sin...... In Christ Steve Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean? Posted : 10 Dec, 2009 09:26 PM Yeah...when I said God protects His translation I kinda meant the King James version. And for once I'm going to have to take Manofgod's side, lol. If the bible is open to retranslation, where do you stop? Were the re-translators inspired by God? How do you know? Because they now agree with you? Why weren't the original translators inspired? I have the same problem with this as I did with Man and Crucifix picking their favorite "uninspired" Strong's Concordance definitions. I have no problems with the way the KJV was translated. The bible interprets itself, and when you read it like that...I believe their views fall apart. You can go back to the original greek and hebrew if you want, but I've seen too many times where someone is like "oh, we just discovered this word means this!". Don't think we need to go back to the Greek to refute Calvinism. I think it refutes itself enough as it is:goofball:. "Oh, we're all horrible insects and so disgusting...except for these few people over here! There's something special about them! And I'm assured I'm one of them!! Woo! You can have that assurance too! Well...unless you're unknowingly faking it...then you can't...because you're going to burn in hell forever! Woo! You love God?! You just think you love God!! Haha, Heretic!! God doesn't love heretics! Burn!! Praise God!!" Whatever...:boxing: :peace::peace: Post Reply
View Profile History	1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean? Posted : 10 Dec, 2009 10:49 PM Steve, The Greek is very clear my Friend. The problem is that you do not like what it says. It is the Calvinists that created their own concept of what that word meant. The Bible does interpret itself and if you would have truly paid attention you can see the clear references of other scriptures using the same language. Myself nor my Pastor discovered this. Young's Literal Translation has it correct. WHY? Because it is more of a word for word translation and it was honest to the Greek. Your Calvinist translators were influenced by their bias and mistranslated it. It amazes me Steve how you can look at the Greek and not see this. Look at YLT as that is the closest to the Greek in this passage. Tell me if you see the difference from all other English translations. If you can't see this then you have a serious problem. By the way.... the Early Church Fathers all taught what we call Arminianism today. No concepts of Calvinism were ever taught in the Early Church....Ante Nicene Fathers. Blessings! Walter Post Reply
View Profile History	1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean? Posted : 11 Dec, 2009 05:39 AM Actually walter....I would have no problem if arminianism "were" true....Im covered either way...yes I was arminian in the beginning....and I did make a "decision" to follow christ,....I even rejected the doctrines of election at first.....but when I read the whole bible in context I came to the conclusion that nothing happens outside of gods sovereign will and I could look back with intellectual(and spiritual)honesty and realize that god had been working in my life many years before I "made my decision" Some people can sin with very few consequences,(Hugh Hefner} it never worked that way for me! The lord always showed me the error of my ways in direct drastic ways(some tragic) it was then I realized he had been leading me down a presice path on purpose for his will and glory! wich I believe hes doing to you and Mark also Yes mark,We are horrible insects!But no the elect arent better than anyone else(read Jacob and Easau) as a matter of fact,not many wise,rich....I forget the verse but anyway....I beleive he picks...Or predestined...foreknew the ones he had planned from the beginning to display his glory to.At least thats what the ENTIRE bible states plainly enough...some were created for judgement(pharoah) Its too obvious fellows! A fish doesnt complain about being a fish. and pharoah was rebellious to the end like I would have been if I wasnt a sheep! but I heard his voice...not because Im better...But because it was his plan from the beginning His clay pots....his creation....his universe. Im glad he took away this orcs heart of stone and gave me a heart of flesh no one can snatch me out of his hand! Because the wind blows where it wants to,we hear the sound of it but........ In Christ steve Post Reply
View Profile History	1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean? Posted : 11 Dec, 2009 05:50 AM Oh and walter....there are election writings from some of the early church.....but Im not concerned with them,after all,there were myriads of people who got it wrong who were standing right in front of christ,he said to them,you dont know me because you dont know the father,...but when he asked peter who do you say that I am.....remember what he said?because my father "REVEALED" this to you And now I challenge you! Read the entire bible all the way through from a calvinist(I dont like that term)veiwpoint and I gar-on-teeee,it will hit you If not now maybe someday but as I always say,you dont have to hold these veiws to be saved......just know you are a rotten sinner....cry out to Jesus and repent! in Christ steve Post Reply
View Profile History	1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean? Posted : 11 Dec, 2009 05:56 AM Oh And Walter....Im just not buying the premise that only greek students who read a certain translation can be saved, Thats just absurd,.....if thats the case....then im doomed.....and so is just about everyone Ive ever met cmon man.....god didnt give you a secret code that only greek students could find yeeesh! Post Reply
View Profile History	1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean? Posted : 11 Dec, 2009 06:00 AM And yes Mark....I still go to church on sunday.....Sometimes saturday night.....Does that help,LOL And yes Walter I was baptized,so am I in the club YIKES! Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean? Posted : 11 Dec, 2009 08:13 AM Well, we kinda agree then. I believe He sees the future, so He made a plan, and since He can see the future He already knew who was going to come when He called. But you put in a element of force, and a definition of election that I can't agree with. The bible says God wants all men everywhere to repent. So the only explanation for why He doesn't save everyone is that everyone does not want to be saved. It is GOD'S WILL that everyone be saved. So if it's His will, and nothing happens outside of His will...why doesn't He force it? Because He created us with free will, that's why. It was His will that we have free will. It's kinda like the parable of the kings feast. The king called all his rich friends, and they all made excuses. They didn't want to go. So then the king called everyone else, and destroyed his rich friends. And then one guy that actually made it to the feast was kicked out. Many are called but few are chosen. Were all those people called by God to come to the feast? So the question is, why weren't the wedding guests forced to be saved if they were the first choice? And what about the servant of the king that owed him money? The king forgave him! Showed great mercy! And then because of the servants actions, the servant was destroyed. Anyway...I believe the bible is full of examples like that, and I believe it shines a lot of inconsistent light on your "theory of Electrocution". I believe it is God's will that everyone would come to Him, and I believe we still have free will. But I also believe God knew who would come to Him from the beginning, and I believe He has a plan that none of us can interfere with. If Calvin is right, then we serve a god that does not deserve love...because that god forces people to love him. That god gives people no choice, and I don't believe that god exists in the bible. :peace::peace: Post Reply
View Profile History	1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean? Posted : 11 Dec, 2009 08:27 AM so Mark Then would that same god that foreknew the future know that some of the creatures he was about to create would not come to him if they were given free will.......and if he went ahead and created them anyway......wouldnt he still be a monster......he didnt have to create them......he knew they would not come......yet he created them anyway now they are damned! thats why election is the only choice! god chose to save some,he couldnt demonstrate his goodness without showing the possibility and the results of evil to his children created in him for goodworks In Christ steve Post Reply

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