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Denominations & Fleshly Ordinances
Posted : 5 Nov, 2009 06:26 PM

Most people in denominations are in complete ignorance of God's word and never study for themselves.

The reason people don't have a clue can be for several reasons. One, they are not saved, or they could be saved but instead of continuing their trust and faith in Christ alone, they are content to have a preacher, or the preacher know the word for them or both and they have not studied the word for themselves to see what God's will is for their lives according to God's word. 2 Timothy 2:15.



After years of careful study I have come to the conclusion that the doctrines in denominations and sects are really not of God but of man's philosophies in just about every instance. Also, its most interesting to research all the major denominations and the pattern for them are all the same. Each denomination got its beginning not from scripture but from the Roman Catholic church. Baptists were individuals who didn't adhere to all of Rome's practices. So a few broke away and began the Ana Baptist church where they baptize babies with water. Then later some more broke off from the Ana Baptist and started the Baptist church because they didn't agree with water baptism for infants. Then from there we got Charismatic Baptist of late, the Baptist in this country split over slavery. So now we have what is called the Southern Baptist who wanted slavery and the Baptist of the North who didn't. There are many other branches of reformed churches too numerous to mention. This all adds up to confusion.



The same can be said of every major denomination in the world. In the Protestant system of religion alone I read where there are over 3,000 denominations, not counting sects.



Sects come from one man/woman who starts their own religion. Such as Charles T. Russell who dreamed up the so called Jehovah Witnesses and this religion became better organized and began to grow when Judge Rutherford split off from Russell in Mo. and that sect has thrived to what it is today. Another one would be Jopesh Bates, Jame White, Ellen J. White, J.N. Andrews, who established the 7th Day Adventist church. Another one is Joesph Smith, a known con artist who dreamed up that angel gave Smith the gold tablets and that resulted in the Mormon Church. In each instance of a sect, they all deny deity of Christ.



This is what we have for religion in the word today. And according to God here is part of the reason why.



James 3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.

15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.



I believe the envying in the beginning of the sects and dominations was the greed or envy for money, power and control over people and that always results in strife and the end results is much confusion such as we have in denominations today.



1Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.



I also believe God has crafted well laid out instructions for saints on the correct way the Lord would have us worship and fellowship.



Paul brings them out in some of the following verses. Please notice any scripture I give is not my interpretation but I will only reinforce what is actually been written.



Many say they want to follow after Christ and they do to some extent, provided it is according to the doctrine of the denomination they are in. Otherwise they won't budge. I believe God uses that to make known who are his people. As you know a doctrine that is not of God's word is heresy.



1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.



I believe the warnings Paul has given us through the inspired word from Christ makes it very plain we are not to fellowship with unbeliever and to be separate from them so there will be unity among God's people.



2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.



2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?



Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.



I don't believe denominations are the church that Christ is building. If the Lord was building denominations, the Roman Catholic church would be part of God's plan. The reason I say that is because the daughters of Rome have many of the family characteristics that the Roman Catholic church has. Such as glass stained windows, wearing a cross, which was never mentioned in scripture but they did that in Babylon. Observing days and traditions such as Christmas and Easter, Halloween, putting the tittle Reverend on a man's name, wearing religious clothing, making images of Christ who is God, making Sunday the Sabbath instead of the way its laid out in scripture with Saturday being seventh day for the Sabbath. Don't get me wrong I do have a Sabbath and my Sabbath is Christ as I rest in Him daily and have ceased from my own labor but rather walk in the reality of Christ's word and grace.



Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.



Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:



I find verse 10 most interesting in regards to ordinances such as water baptism, communion, sabbath keeping, tithing as these are all things we do with our flesh and are more of traditions from Rome then of the scriptures. Israel is the one who had fleshy ordinances and worshiped that the Lord physically burdened Israel and with a physical temple and rules and regulation under the law. Today Christ lives in us and we worship just spiritually for we are Christ's holy temple.



1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.



Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;



Ephesians 2:15, that would make for another study as that really gets involved with us using our flesh to worship God in regards to water and what we eat or drink or holiday Such as Christmas and Easter, communion and the list really is much broader. But I will give you a few verses in reference to how we worship God according to His word.



Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.



Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.



Now that we have Christ's Holy Spirit dwelling in believers we have no need for the shadows {ordinances} of Christ and the law that were contained in ordinances and nailed to the cross. Since Christ has done it all for us, just believing by faith establishes the law.



Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.



God establishes his law in us with us just believing only.



When a believer practices any ordinances, that believer is showing either their ignorance of God's will or unbelief. We are given it all by faith and we lack for nothing from God and neither can a believer improve on perfection but rather only show their unbelief in Christ and add confusion to what God has already made perfect. The only thing we lack from god the moment we are born again is knowledge and wisdom, both which we can find in God's word.



These next verses show us how we are made complete in Christ through what God has done for us spiritually and not to have confidence in our flesh.



Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;



Buried with Christ in baptism has to be spiritual baptism, an operation of God just as it says in verse 12.



Paul also tells us we only have one body or church, and one faith, not the faith of our choice, and we have only one baptism, and denominations preach two, water and spirit.



Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.



So many think we have a choice in how we worship the Lord and so few realize we have no choice. Is the servant wiser the the Master? The answer is; only in our carnal minds.



Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.



I also firmly believe everything God wants of us to honor Christ is found in the instructions to the church and its most important that we understand the promises made to Israel are not the church for both Jew and Gentile are made a new creature in Christ that has no nationality.



2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.



A key verse is 17. old things {ordinances contained in the law} are passed away and behold all things are become new. Next verses I will show you what is new and how it came about right from God's word.



Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.



Next the new creature.



Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;



We and all believers are the new creation that is neither Jew or Gentile for our citizenship is in heaven.



Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.



We are saved by the covenant God made with Abraham. Most denominations' doctrines claim we are under the new covenant God made with Israel. That can not be possible since all those promises were made to Israel only and since the church or the time of Gentile ends, the church will not be here to receive the physical promises God made to Israel. Also since we are a new creation that has no earthly nationality, is another reason we are not under the new covenant made to Israel.



One thing most people don't understand, is that we are the church.



1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.



At this time before I end this I want to give you some more scriptures concerning Christ and the church.



1 Peter 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:



A couple of observations I want to make, is that Christ indeed is a stumbling block to those who won't rest in His word from all the above verses I gave.



When we get ourselves involved with the doctrines of men and try to organize ourselves better then what Christ has done the moment we were born again, the Lord indeed becomes a stumbling stone of offense. When we think we have improved upon what God has already made complete we undo what He has done and show our ignorance of unbelief.



2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.



The only thing that lacks is our immaturity and ignorance. But God has given us gifts so we can know all things that are acceptable to His will that we may glorify him through his word.



1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.



1 Corinthians 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.



1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.







May the lord bless all who read this.



Tomlane

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Stephan

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Denominations & Fleshly Ordinances
Posted : 7 Nov, 2009 07:15 PM

Tom,



While I agree with a lot of your study here there is a small glitch to bring up.



Your opening statement possibly with out intention is putting down God's church ( not a good idea). You say in your premise that (most) do not read the word or understand it

(something like that). Most...kind of means(or comes across as ) everyone in your opinion. Again I'm thinking that is a glitchy statement.



You say next that you have studied... See, now how do I know you have studied enough? How do I know you have actually studied at all? That's not the real point here.



Do you see the point? Your premise comes across as you saying christians don't know what the Bible say's because they don't even read it. But you have read it and you know what it say's. Now if it were true you might think about rewording your premise so you don't make people mad at you before your next word is presented.

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Posted : 8 Nov, 2009 03:11 PM

Friend I disagree with you on Denominations for several reasons.

In the 1980's when certain well known men of god had affairs they had there suspended for a year.We all know the 2 main guys.The one ignored it and went off by himself and got caught with a prostitue afterwards.We must have a higher authority that we answer too.As in a group of men or women.They enforce a moral standard.I can not quote enough verses to back this.

However,the early church had a group of men that did this very thing.Paul did answer to them.As did Barnabus,Peter was part of the group. See my point.

A Denomination enforces certain rules to prevent Hersey also inside the ranks.You must meet certain requirements to preach the word.This is to prevent a false teacher from deceiving good people.

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DontHitThatMark

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Posted : 9 Nov, 2009 08:49 AM

Yeah...I'd have to agree with Stephan...kinda sounds like you have clearer understanding, and that everyone else is messed up. I study too...and there was a point I was trying to get across to someone else here. You think you're right, and other people are wrong. So, inherently, you believe that the bible can be misinterpreted....just...not by you apparently. Then you could say "well, I've studied more then most because I'm older". And I'd say..."the Pope is pretty old...I know for a fact that he's wrong." Guess what I'm trying to say is...your interpretation of truth is just as fallible as everyone else.





"Since Christ has done it all for us, just believing by faith establishes the law."



Read James. Works by the law are a definite sign of true faith. If you don't keep the law/commands of Jesus...if you purposely disregard the law in even one point...you fail the whole law, and you have dead faith. Anyway, James brings this out...chapter 2 specifically. And He is talking about the "Law", as in, the 10 commandments. He even references a couple of them, and then says "fail in one point, fail them all". But I do agree, the law bound up in ordinances was nailed to the cross. But not the 10 commandments. And I think that should be obvious....whenever Paul talks about the law being nailed to the cross, or about stuff that we don't need to do anymore...He talks about circumcision, food, ceremonies, sacrifices...



"I find verse 10 most interesting in regards to ordinances such as water baptism, communion, sabbath keeping, tithing as these are all things we do with our flesh and are more of traditions from Rome then of the scriptures. Israel is the one who had fleshy ordinances and worshiped that the Lord physically burdened Israel and with a physical temple and rules and regulation under the law. Today Christ lives in us and we worship just spiritually for we are Christ's holy temple."



Jesus and the apostles all did/taught those things. Jesus and the apostles said to be baptized. Jesus said to do communion and foot washing. The Israelites tithed...and I'm not sure what the apostles called it, but there were "collections".

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DontHitThatMark

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Posted : 9 Nov, 2009 08:55 AM

"I believe the warnings Paul has given us through the inspired word from Christ makes it very plain we are not to fellowship with unbeliever and to be separate from them so there will be unity among God's people."



And I'm not sure what you mean by this...Jesus fellowshipped with unbelievers. The apostles did. And how are we supposed to spread the word of God if we don't fellowship with the people we're spreading it to? What Paul is saying is "Don't compromise with unbelievers"...not "don't fellowship". But like I said...not really sure what you mean there...when I think of fellowship, I think of having lunch with someone...or spending time with them...maybe you were talking about "someone named a brother"? We are not supposed to fellowship with someone that is called a christian, but isn't living like one.



:peace::peace:

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Stephan

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Posted : 10 Nov, 2009 04:45 AM

Tom,



It's a life in the Spirit of God we all want. There is no substitute for that. And it is a real life journey.



I have some suggested reading for you please read it.



http://artkatzministries.org/israel-and-the-outpouring-of-the-spirit/



Blessings brother

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