To me, this answer to this question is obvious. No, sunday school is not wrong. Recently, though, I came across a minister who was mad at churches that had sunday school, because... and these are the exact words... "it is unbiblical". I'm not going to tell you what denomination he was, because I don't believe all people under a single denomination have the EXACT same views. For example, another minister told me that baptisms didn't represent repentance of sins. It represents Jesus raising from the dead. Umm... I'm no biblical expert, here... but I believe John the Baptist was baptizing people in repentance of their sins. HE didn't know Jesus was going to die and raise back to life. If anyone has ever heard of these 2 beliefs of currently believes them, could you please explain to me what I'm missing? Thank you.
Cattleman, I noticed you never gave any scripture to prove your believes. So I can only take it as your opinions. I appreciate that but, your gong doesn't ring loud enough to merit a deeper reply because you have given me nothing to respond to.
I would like to ask you a question, if you don't mind... :waving:
After one becomes a Christian, how does one learn the word of God if he/she doesn't attend some sort of organized Bible study?
A new Christian can read the Bible verses and learn much, but it seems important to me to hear the voice of God through a man called by God...at least it is to me. From someone that wasn't raised in a Christian environment, I could not depend on my parents to guide me in God's word, so I am very thankful to those women that taught my Sunday School lessons.
Browneyedgirlky , You have posed a very good question and I believe the answer is found in God's word. The answer is a bit complicated so I hope you will read my answers to you though to the end.
First of all lets establish what a new Christian is according to God's word. The reason I want to establish what is a new Christian, is because most people think they are a Christian because they either go to church regularly or because they are doing good things and hoping the good will outweigh the bad. According to God's word none of the above makes a person a Christian. Since we are all sinners we all need the redemptive work of Jesus Christ.
Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
From the above scriptures I hope we have established that a Christian is a saved sinner, born {spiritually} again from God.
You stated, � A new Christian can read the Bible verses and learn much, but it seems important to me to hear the voice of God through a man called by God.�
I believe the first part of your statement that a new Christian can read and learn much.
Actually you hit the proverbial nail on the hit. No man including myself can know the bible for you. When you read God's word and if you are saved Christ's holy spirit will guide you into all of God's truth. I'll list below some of the verses as they are found in God's word so you can read them for yourself and you don't have to take my word for them.
1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
The two above verses is telling us to study so we can be approved by God, by rightly dividing the word of truth. And we do that by comparing spiritual things, {God's word} with spiritual things. Many people make the mistake of buying a book and getting a wrong message about God's ways because 99% of the time the authors outlook is tainted by the doctrine of either the denomination or sect he or she is in or from the doctrines taught at divinity schools. Your grocery store can't eat for you and neither can someone feed you spiritually, only God and His word can do that for you. God's word is spiritual meat {food} for the heart and soul if a person is saved.
What is sad, most people when they buy something such as a computer desk or book case they have to put together; they will follow the instruction very carefully without questioning them. God's word is an instruction book as well and it also reveals the Son of God in the various ways he has dealt with mankind over centuries.
Hopefully you will notice when it comes to the word of God, very few take God at his word and they want two twist God's word to fit their doctrine or belief system. The results is over three thousand denominations just in the Protestant system alone because man uses his carnal mind to try and fathom God's word. I'll give you what God says about the carnal mind.
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Are you beginning to see that if we take God literally we can begin to understand His instructions for us. But we can't understand if we use our carnal minds. We all have one and we have to born again and have the mind of Christ and the Holy Spirit to bring us into all understanding. That is what I will prove next from God's word. I know this may seem like a long round about way to answer your question but its needful so you can understand how God deals with us in regards to Sunday schools.
1 Corinthians 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
So when we are born again {spiritually} we are given the mind of Christ so that we can understand all things.
Romans 15:14 And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.
In these last days we have to be very careful who we put our confidence in that can add to our knowledge or admonish us in God's word for we are in the last days of the gentile and religion if filled with the falsehood of apostasy and these wolves in sheep's clothing make God's word into a lie and the truth is not in them. Another reason why we have to study for ourselves rather then have others teach us or our children. I hope you have noticed the variety of doctrines just on the forums on this site. Since God is not the author of confusion but of peace and joy then the confusion must come from the carnal mind of man and the god of this world. A false doctrine of untruth is mixed with truth to make the lie seem reasonable to our carnal minds and we will believe a lie if we are not saved and we haven't put our faith into a false system of religion. Pride and the desire to embrace a lie is what keeps us from God's truth. God gives us the spirit of error and he also gives us the spirit of truth, but if we want to take in a false doctrine rather than God's truth, God will allow us to do that because he gave us a free will. However, if we are saved, then one day we will have to stand before the Lord and give an account of what we have done in the body and our works will be tried by fire.
1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
If you will recall I also mentioned briefly that God gives the believer the spirit of error and the spirit of truth. I want to give you the scripture for that as well.
1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
Hopefully if you are born again you are beginning to see the how well equipped a child of God is if we study these things for ourselves and learn the abilities God gives us as a child of God.. God will not let you down, he will give us his truth to the degree we yield our hearts to him. Nothing more and nothing less. We all start out as babies in the faith, as we grow and learn to trust Christ and His word the more our wisdom and understanding will grow as well.
The other side of the coin is if we put our trust in a man rather then God's word there is a good chance you will be led away from God's truth. Let me show you from God's word what God says about good word and fair speeches.
Romans 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
If you look at this verse closely as to what it is saying: those that are not serving Christ but their belly, {people that preach by their gut feelings instead of from all of God's word} and with their good words and fair speeches they deceive the hearts of the simple. The simple would be any of who don't study God's word for themselves and we put ourselves in the trust of men {denominational preachers} who who causes divisions. Divisions being denominations. Here is the proof as found in the verse preceding Romans 16:18.
Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
God says for us not to join them but to avoid them. The truth concerning Sunday schools are found not found in God's word but in the walls of
denominational ism. I'll give you more proof why God is not into denominations and sects.
2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
Denominations have both saved and unsaved alike worshiping together. God wants His people set apart from the unsaved in fellowship and worshiping so we won't be influenced by them. God's people are to be a holy people {set apart} from the world.
John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Today people show their hate of God's truth by stating such things as that is your interpretation, when in reality all I have done is given God's word and reinforced the very same things it is saying. Or they may say make many statements and not back up what they believe with very much scripture and in many cases no scripture at all. What scripture they do give is taken completely out of context because they don't understand all of God's word on a given subject and most cases don't want to know. We have to compare scripture with scripture to see if it is in agreement with all of God's word.
I believe Sunday schools are nothing more then breeding grounds for the false doctrines preached within the confines of that denomination or sect that the Sunday school is in.
Here is some other scriptures on divisions within denominations that God hates. I have been giving you many scripture so you can see I have not taken them out of context.
1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
Romans 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I'm going to give part of the prayer Christ prayed just before his time of suffering was to come. The prayer he prayed in the garden is all about unity among believers.
John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
Please notice the prayer in the garden is in complete harmony with all the scriptures I have given in regards to what I have given from God's word.
Parents should teach their children about God at home and have them memorize scriptures.
Ephesians 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
These next scriptures I will give you is the bottom line of all I have given.
1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
I hope this may have answered your question, and if you have more I would be more then glad to give it a try.
Please notice what I gave was how God sees disunity that makes for poor fellowship and growing in Christ Sunday school is just an par of what is wrong with churchianity. Spiritual growth comes from proper fellowship and with studying for one's self.
I would like to add every division in religion is identified with a different name, such as Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Roman Catholic, Pentecostal, and the list goes on and on.
Believers who want to properly fellowship and grow in Christ will honor the next verses found next.
Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
Wow, I did not believe that such a simple topic can cause so much discussion.
As for my position, I agree with Garrett. I would even go so far as to say that we need to think of Sunday school for adults, not just for children. This is because I believe that the word of God exists in three forms.
The first is Jesus Christ, the second is written scripture and the third is the word proclaimed, be that in sermons, in public places or in Sunday schools. All of these three are the Word of God. This, then, would mean that teaching in Sunday schools is as much the Word of God as reading the Bible for one's self.
Tom, I see where you are coming from. I find your position interesting, although I do not agree with you. Please let me know if I am right in assuming that you think that the only thing that a congregation (I know that you do not like the word church :) should do is only to read scripture in its meetings.
Aceets, To answer your question on how believers should meet is really very simple because God has laid out with plain instructions on how saints are to meet in fellowship to honor Christ.
True Christianity is really simple.
God's way can be laid out with two verses of Scripture.
2 Corinthians 6:14 �Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
Colossians 3:17 �And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
I believe God wants believers to use the family name, not that of what man produces with their carnal minds.
In regards to the three ways you introduced on how to study God's word is not scriptural. And God has said if its not from his word its sin.
Romans 10:17 �So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 14:23 �And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
what you gave is merely an opinion based on feelings and human thought rather then from God's word. That is how God's word gets confusing when you bring in other sources other then directly from God and the Holy spirit.
2 Timothy 2:15 �Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
1 Corinthians 2:13 �Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Colossians 2:8 �Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Please don't misunderstand me, for I do believe believers should gather for fellowship and worship but it should be only according to God's word, only.
Well, in my church we have classes for children because...maybe it's just me....but I don't think little kids can understand the deep spiritual context of a pastoral sermon at 4 years old. I don't see anything wrong with it, just like I don't see anything wrong with someone singing in church...or everyone wearing shoes in church...or whatever...and yeah...I'm not seeing the big deal here. If the children are being taught the bible in Sabba....Sunday school, then it's good, right?
dear folks, ya know if ya think sunday school is wrong.. then id like to ask you why is the word teach used so many times in the bible? why are the men who are called to preach and teach told to do so? we have many examples of this being done in the bible. some are done in a church setting , some are done on the street corners ,some are done in the houses and all are spoken of in the bible..
since the sunday school is a sperperate part of a church building and not therefore held in the main congregation.. then wouldnt that be concidered the same as teaching in the home or out on the street?
studying the word of GOD is never wrong people.
and yes it is true that we do have the HOLY SPIRIT in us to help teach us all things. we know for a fact that folks that are looking at the exact same words in the bible tend to come up with different intrepretations.. so we know that yes we can get it wrong at times. and if we get to where we think we know all the answers just from our own studies, then satan can use that against us.. satan knows scripture too and he can use that to twist you ifn you aint careful..
he even tried to use it against JESUS if you will remember..
you must check what you believe against what has been taught from the beginning. not what has come about in later years . new thoughts ,new wave religion ,theologies.
it is when we believe that we dont need to check our own beliefs against what was taught from the beginning,,it is then that we can become dangerous to ourselves and others.. as that is how the david koreshs of the world begin ..
yes folks we do need men of GOD who were called to preach and teach from the HOLY SPIRIT, as we can all still learn something from each of them.
Cattleman, again thank you for your opinions. No scripture just rhetoric. Also you have completely missed the point. Children should not be separated from their parents during a service. Also instead of teaching God's word, each denomination only teachers their version of what they perceive as truth. No one teaches scripture just as God states it they take things out of context and mix up Judaism with grace and hang on to ordinances such a water baptism, Sabbath keeping, tithing and other ordinance when God has said the ordinances contained in the law have been abolished. This does not take into consideration all of the burdensome programs that are not biblical but do put money in the denominations coffers. Religion should not be a business but it should be about showing forth Christ in one's walk.
I could give you many scriptures but I'll only give one tonight.
Ephesians 2:15 �Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
dear tom, thank you for the rhetoric compliment.. it is a compliment as i had to look it up to see what it was hehe..
and i find that your statement here is a bit hypocritical.. as you are doin exactly what you say others are doing .. you are teaching others here what your version of what you percieve as truth.. yet you are downing them for it. and not your own self.. why? it is because you believe that your truth is the only truth same as they do.. but yet you down only them.. dont hardly seem right..
your words here
Also instead of teaching God's word, each denomination only teachers their version of what they perceive as truth.
romans 2:21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal?
i have another question for you. you put down non denominational on your profile.. and the way you speak here is to me that you dont need to go to church to be taught by anyone... as you have your own truth.. and you say the churches are doin it all wrong.. but if you do go to a church ,do they have sunday school?
if you do go to a church and they have sunday school , then wouldnt that also be a bit hypocritical?
