Let's examine what Arminian theology is from an Arminian and not the typical twisted view espoused by Calvinists.
The Five Arminian Articles of Remonstrance
I.That God, by an eternal and unchangeable purpose in Jesus Christ His Son, before the foundations of the world were laid, determined to save, out of the human race which had fallen into sin, in Christ, for Christ's sake and through Christ, those who through the grace of the Holy Spirit shall believe on the same His Son and shall through the same grace persevere in this same faith and obedience of faith even to the end; and on the other hand to leave under sin and wrath the contumacious and unbelieving and to condemn them as aliens from Christ, according to the word of the Gospel in John 3:36, and other passages of Scripture.
II.That, accordingly, Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the world, died for all men and for every man, so that He has obtained for all, by His death on the cross, reconciliation and remission of sins; yet so that no one is partaker of this remission except the believers [John 3:16; 1 John 2:2].
III.That man has not saving grace of himself, nor of the working of his own free-will, inasmuch as in his state of apostasy and sin he can for himself and by himself think nothing that is good � nothing, that is, truly good, such as saving faith is, above all else. But that it is necessary that by God, in Christ and through His Holy Spirit he be born again and renewed in understanding, affections and will and in all his faculties, that he may be able to understand, think, will, and perform what is truly good, according to the Word of God [John 15:5].
IV.That this grace of God is the beginning, the progress and the end of all good; so that even the regenerate man can neither think, will nor effect any good, nor withstand any temptation to evil, without grace precedent (or prevenient), awakening, following and co-operating. So that all good deeds and all movements towards good that can be conceived in through must be ascribed to the grace of God in Christ. But with respect to the mode of operation, grace is not irresistible; for it is written of many that they resisted the Holy Spirit [Acts 7 and elsewhere passim].
V.That those who are grafted into Christ by a true faith, and have thereby been made partakers of His life-giving Spirit, are abundantly endowed with power to strive against Satan, sin, the world and their own flesh, and to win the victory; always, be it understood, with the help of the grace of the Holy Spirit, with Jesus Christ assisting them in all temptations, through His Spirit; stretching out His hand to them and (providing only that they are themselves prepared for the fight, that they entreat His aid and do not fail to help themselves) propping and upbuilding them so that by no guile or violence of Satan can they be led astray or plucked from Christ's hands [John 10:28]. But for the question whether they are not able through sloth or negligence to forsake the beginning of their life in Christ, to embrace again this present world, to depart from the holy doctrine once delivered to them, to lose their good conscience and to neglect grace--this must be the subject of more exact inquiry in the Holy Scriptures, before we can teach it with full confidence of our mind.
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When we examine historical records of the Ante-Nicene Fathers, these are the writers of the first 300 years of the Early Church, some of which were the direct personal disciples of John the Apostle and Paul, we find some interesting things.
1) All of the ideas and concepts and theology of what we call Arminian Theology today can be found in the Early Church. This is what was handed down by the Apostles to their Disciples. This is irrefutable.
2) What we cannot find are any of the ideas, concepts and theology of Calvinism, not a one. None of them! Nothing of what John Calvin taught can be found prior to St. Augustine. Even "Perseverance of the Saints" was a new invention of Calvin. Prior to the 1500s Once Saved Always Saved simply did not exist. It is a man made theology.
I can't seem to find anywhere in the Word of God wherein any of the disciples taught man's theology. The scriptures tells us that the apostle/disciples taught the people the Doctrine of Jesus Christ. Salvation is not nrought about by the teachings of man's theology trying to figure out what God is saying to man and the world he live in. But salvation is brought by the finished works of the cross that Jesus accomplished. The apostles taught the proper scripture, and God was their source.
Arminian theology nor that of Calvin is in the bible, this is only theology based on what these men gathered from reading/studying God's word, in their efforts of trying to figure out what God is saying to man. But the true doctrine (not theology) and teaching of the apostles was the same as that taught by Jesus can be found in scripture.
Sure the study of theology is important, because many cults make doctrines out of their man created theology. But, I would think that knowing God through Jesus Christ is MOST IMPORTANT to ones salvation in the teaching, practice, and understanding of the Doctrine of Jesus in a personal relationship. As this is what we have been exhorted to teach and do, because the teaching of the Doctrine of Christ is irrefutable. Man's theology is always irrefutable, because its only man trying to know ABOUT the mind of God as to what He was trying to say to man, in man's theology. But the doctrine of Christ is what God would have us to study and practice in order to know His Son and come into knowledge of who He is as our Father.:yay:
dear folks, i dont know about you folks but i had already read the bible and came to the conclusions of my beliefs before i ever read about or knew about any theology..
now what i did when i later read about what arminium beliefs were it was then that i seen that what i had already come to believe from the bible myself was that we believed alot alike.. on all but one part . and i worte about my thinkin on that part earlier.
now maybe some folks are taught by theology first before they read the bible themselves and come to their own beliefs.. i think thats doin it backwards hehe.. i think you need to read the word of GOD and let it speak to you first ..
Interperate these for me,Id really like to know what you think they mean.
Acts 13:48: And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; AND AS MANY AS HAD BEEN APPOINTED TO ETERNAL LIFE BELIEVED.
John 1:12-13: But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, WHO WERE BORN NOT OF BLOOD, NOR OF THE WILL OF THE FLESH, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, BUT OF GOD.
Philippians 1:29: FOR TO YOU IT HAS BEEN GRANTED FOR CHRIST'S SAKE, NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE IN HIM, but also to suffer for his sake.
Romans 8:29-30: FOR WHOM HE FOREKNEW, HE ALSO PREDESTINED to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren; and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Ephesians 1:5: HE PREDESTINED US to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will.
Ephesians 1:11 Also WE HAVE OBTAINED AN INHERITANCE, HAVING BEEN PREDESTINED ACCORDING TO HIS PURPOSE who works all things after the counsel of His will.
9For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Okay, Man... this is all taken from Romans chapter 9. Paul is speaking about God's promised blessing to Abraham and his physical decendants, as well as his spirual decendants who are by faith as Abraham trusted God.
Of course, we know that not all of Israel (physical decendants will receive the spiritual blessing, because it takes faith to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ which is God eternal purpose for all of Israel. And not only just for Israel , but for the Gentiles (non-Jews) all who believe. The end results of faith is to be a recipient of God's righteousness and heaven. There is a remnant of Israel who will be saved, just are there will be those who are gentiles (us) who will be saved by faith. God made four covenants with Israel and He will full fill them, which we all enjoy. God's Salvation plan was not only for Israel but for all who believe by FAITH!
And ALL who believe as Abraham BY faith will be saved THROUGH GOD'S GRACE. Romans chapter 4 tells the story, of how we're justified, and if a person does not understand Romans chapters 4 & 5 & 9, something is worng... it is becsue of God's grace and mercy that we are saved unworthy as we are, but because God is soveregin, He doesn't need premission to do as He plesase with whom He please, how He pleases, or when He pleases, so He has no problems raising up sinners from the pits. He's in debt t no one because He is our potter (creator) we are the clay.
BTW, I just completed a paper on God's vessals of mercy and vessels wrath taken from this chapter verses 22-24.
BTW< Romans chapter 9, also lets us know that there is no such thing as "FREE WILL"...seeing how we are not our own creators, and have no control whatsoever over ourselves or anything assoiciated with/to us... we would like to tHINk that we do, but that's a lie. Just ask Jonah and Pharaoh... even so the cast of players as pointed out by Paul in Romans 9, let us also know there is no such thing as man having freedom of will... we have freedom of choice which God points out in Genesis chapter 3:22, God has allowed us freedom of choice to know good from evil... we are to choose between the good and evil, right and wrong, life and death. We can keep doing evil or wrong and not expect consequences. If we had freedom of will (free will) there would be no need for God to punish evil. I've got a feeling this is where you're going with these scriptures... I satnd to be corrected:zzzz: lol
You said: "I'm confused in the above therefore my question to you , Walter is: What are you trying to say here? Are you saying that Arminian Theology influenced the writings of the Early Chruch as in Paul and John and the apostles of the first century church? Maybe I'm off course here, so help me out... According to what I've found, the ante nicene church fathers came AFTER the apostles and they were the one taught by the apostles, and influenced their writings, because the ante-nicene fathers did start writing until somewhere around the last part of the first sentury to the 2nd century. Also, are you saying Arminian Theology was around during the time of John and Paul and the other disciples/apostles and when they started the first church, and did their first century writings?..."
WALTER: What I have been saying all along is that when we look at the Early Church Fathers...Ante-Nicene, what we find in their writings are all the same ideas and concepts of what we call Arminian theology today.
What you will not find in their writings are any of the concepts and ideas of what we call Calvinism today. None whatsoever. Those concepts and ideas were not taught in the Early Church. It was never handed down to the personal disciples of the Apostles.
Here's a link to a great site where you will find some of the writings of the Earliest of the Church Fathers including the dates they lived.
and now i give you some history of the man named calvin does this seem CHRISTLIKE? are we not to know them by their fruits? this is why i wont follow calvinism.. plus i dont agrree with all of the beliefs there either..
someone elses words here
I have been reading a lot about Calvin and his views.
I n a sermon on Job 3:3 he stated,�Although women were made in God�s image that they are inferior to them. Calvin also had two sets of deacons and the women belonged to the set that was allowed to serve the poor and needy. Mr. Calvin also beheaded or had people burnt alive for not following his beliefs. Where does our Lord tell us to do this? I have read that he was just a man of his times, yet for someone who lived by the Word; his killings of innocents were not by the word. This is enough to me not to follow Calvin�s teachings because God tells us to kill is against the 10 commandments. I will live and die by my God�s word. This is a quote from Calvin� that an end could be put to their machinations in no other way than cutting them off by an ignominious death� (John Calvin). 1553 -- Michael Servetus, an anti Trinitarian, and opponent of Calvin is burnt to death at Geneva.
��at an end could be put to their machinations in no other way than cutting them off by an ignominious death� (John Calvin).
The great declaration of the Reformation was �Sola Scriptura,� Scripture Alone. To this we give a hearty amen. But for John Calvin it clearly was not Scripture alone. It was Scripture plus some key leftovers of the Roman Catholic Church: notably: infant baptism, a state church, and persecution of those who did not fall into line. As H.R Pike writes, �It was Scripture plus the sword of the state, hangings, burning at the stake, prison, tortures...� (The Other Side of John Calvin, p. 54).
Below is evidence that this is not overstatement!
Most who call themselves Calvinist say very little about the famous Reformer having a persecuting side. This reflects a selective silence that began quite early. We are greatly indebted to John Foxe and his Book of Martyrs for detailing the terrible atrocities meted out by Papal Rome. But Foxe, a contemporary and friend of Calvin (he outlived Calvin by 23 years), gives not one paragraph to the many persecutions that took place at Calvin�s Geneva and elsewhere across Europe. Only those who suffered at the hand of Rome are mentioned (Pike, n.122).
That Rome�s crimes were much greater in magnitude does not excuse this silence concerning the considerable persecution Protestants meted out. Nor can we accept the excuse that �Calvin�s actions must be seen in light of the standards of that age�. Regardless of the age, the New Testament is the standard against which actions are judged!
CHRONOLOGY OF CALVIN�S LIFE
1509 -- Born at Noyon, northwest of Paris. His father was lawyer-secretary to the local Catholic bishop.
1521 -- Placed on church payroll as a �benefice.�
1523 -- Sent to the University of Paris to study for the priesthood. Begins to be attracted to anti Romanist views.
1528 -- His father and older brother are excommunicated from the Catholic Church. Leaves Paris to study law at Orleans and then at Bourges. Comes under the influence of the reformer Melchoir Wolmar.
1531 -- After death of father he returns to Paris to study Greek and Hebrew, but shortly after resumes law studies at Orleans. There he receives a doctorate with highest honours.
1533 -- Comes under the influence of a cousin, Olivetan, a Waldensian pastor and translator of the Bible into French. Makes final break with the Catholic Church and declares himself a Protestant. His writings do not give a clear testimony of his own salvation experience (Pike, pp.7-9).
1533-36 -- Flees Paris, takes up residence in Basel. Finishes first edition of his Institutes of the Christian Religion.
1536 -- Arrives in Geneva, a city that had recently declared itself free from the Catholic Church. Is persuaded by William Farel to develop a church-state system for Geneva. All in the city are required to attend the Reformed Church. All must give an oath of allegiance to a code of faith and discipline on fear of banishment from the city. In less than two years Calvin and Farel are forced to flee Geneva because of the harshness of their system.
1538 -- Oversees a church of French refugees in Strasbourg. Comes under the influence of Martin Bucer. Revises his Institutes. Writes a commentary on Romans. Does all in his power to oppose the Anabaptists.
1541 -- At the urging of the city council returns to Geneva. Drafts regulations for both church and city government. Churches (only Calvin�s Reformed Church is allowed in Geneva) are placed under the Ecclesiastical Ordinances. The Consistory composed of six pastors and twelve elders insures that the Ordinances are upheld. Meeting every Thursday, those adjudged to be in breach are turned over to the civil authorities for punishment. The Civil Code sets out the means by which the government acts on behalf of the Church. The Church is to teach and the State enforce. All citizens of Geneva are to be members of the Church. This was designed to establish Geneva as the beginning of the Kingdom of God on earth. In fact it resulted in a coercion that would make Geneva to the Protestants what Rome had been to the Catholics.
1553 -- Michael Servetus, an anti Trinitarian, and opponent of Calvin is burnt to death at Geneva.
1557 -- Writes Preface to his Commentaries.
1564 -- Dies at Geneva.
CALVIN�S STATEMENTS SUPPORTING PERSECUTION
Prefatory Address in his Institutes to Francis, King of the French, 1536. �But when I perceived that the fury of certain bad men had risen to such a height in your realm, that there was no place in it for sound doctrine, I thought it might be of service if I were in the same work both to give instruction to my countrymen, and also lay before your Majesty a Confession, from which you may learn what the doctrine is that so inflames the rage of those madmen who are this day, with fire and sword, troubling your kingdom. For I fear not to declare, that what I have here given may be regarded as a summary of the very doctrine which, they vociferate, ought to be punished with confiscation, exile, imprisonment, and flames, as well as exterminated by land and sea. � This, I allow, is a fearful punishment which God sends on the earth; but if the wickedness of men so deserves, why do we strive to oppose the just vengeance of God?�
Letter to William Farel, February 13, 1546. �If he [Servetus] comes [to Geneva], I shall never let him go out alive if my authority has weight.�
Letter to the Lord Protector of Somerset, adviser to King Edward VI, October 22, 1548. �[They] well deserve to be repressed by the sword which is committed to you, seeing that they attack not the King only, but God who has seated him upon the throne, and has entrusted to you the protection as well of His person as of His majesty.�
Letter of August 20, 1553, one week after Servetus arrest. �I hope that Servetus will be condemned to death.�
Defense of Orthodox Faith against the Prodigious Errors of the Spaniard Michael Servetus, published in early 1554. "Whoever shall now contend that it is unjust to put heretics and blasphemers to death will knowingly and willingly incur their very guilt. This is not laid down on human authority; it is God who speaks and prescribes a perpetual rule for his Church. It is not in vain that he banishes all those human affections which soften our hearts; that he commands paternal love and all the benevolent feelings between brothers, relations, and friends to cease; in a word, that he almost deprives men of their nature in order that nothing may hinder their holy zeal. Why is so implacable a severity exacted but that we may know that God is defrauded of his honour, unless the piety that is due to him be preferred to all human duties, and that when his glory is to be asserted, humanity must be almost obliterated from our memories?�.
Many people have accused me of such ferocious cruelty that I would like to kill again the man I have destroyed. Not only am I indifferent to their comments, but I rejoice in the fact that they spit in my face.�
Preface to Commentaries, July 22, 1557. �To these irreligious characters. and despisers of the heavenly doctrine�. I think that there is scarcely any of the weapons which are forged in the workshop of Satan, which has not been employed by them in order to obtain their object. And at length matters had come to such a state, that an end could be put to their machinations in no other way than cutting them off by an ignominious death; which was indeed a painful and pitiable spectacle to me
. They no doubt deserved the severest punishment, but I always rather desired that they might live in prosperity, and continue safe and untouched; which would have been the case had they not been altogether incorrigible, and obstinately refused to listen to wholesome admonition.�
Comments on Ex. 22:20, Lev. 24:16, Deut. 13:5-15, 17:2-5. �Moreover, God Himself has explicitly instructed us to kill heretics, to smite with the sword any city that abandons the worship of the true faith revealed by Him.�
Letter to the Marquis Paet, chamberlain to the King of Navarre, 1561. �Honour, glory, and riches shall be the reward of your pains; but above all, do not fail to rid the country of those scoundrels [Anabaptists and others], who stir up the people to revolt against us. Such monsters should be exterminated
, as I have exterminated Michael Servetus the Spaniard.�
author unknownst to me : forgot where i got it from..
I don't get what the big deal is here. I have never studied the difference between Armenian theology or Calvinists theology. Is it required to become a Christian?
I assume Calvin is some dead religious leader who I would pay little attention to anyway because God is not the God of the dead but God of the living,"
(Mark 12:27).
It really sounds to me like a classroom discussion on religion.
That is not necessarily Christian, too bad.
Because for believers who receive the Holy Spirit it is already covered...
"you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things" 1Jo 2:20.
If the Spirit teaches us all things why do we need Calvin or that other guy?
