Adam and Flat Teddy’s Self-Professed “Sinless Perfectionism” is Really More Sin
Posted : 2 Apr, 2021 08:12 PM
I copied part of this article earlier but I decided to copy the entire article here.
The article explains Bible verses that are falsely used by “sinless perfectionism” heretics along with other insights.
The False Doctrine of SINLESS PERFECTION / Bob L. Ross
Posted on September 9, 2010 by Timothy Oliver
The devil has deceived people in many ways and with many false doctrines, and the heresy of sinlessness in the flesh is one of them. Not many communities have escaped this heresy, and I am sure that wherever you may live, some false teacher has come along to propagate this doctrine. In fact, from the pulpit, over the radio, and on television, people are subjected to this heresy all over the world.
In view of the widespread area this false doctrine has permeated, we deem it wise to refute this heresy with the Word of God, in order to establish God’s people in the truth.
When One Is Saved
First of all, let us notice what happens when a sinner is saved. In Ephesians 2:1, we read, “And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.”
This verse teaches us that a person becomes alive spiritually when he is saved. Note, too, that before being saved, the person was “dead” spiritually. Not dead physically; the flesh wasn’t dead; but “dead” spiritually. Now when the sinner is saved, he becomes “alive” spiritually. This has nothing to do with the old flesh, but with inner spiritual life in Christ. The flesh has been alive all along. Now the soul is quickened to life, or united to Christ’s life.
Notice another verse in John 6:63-“It is the Spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing.” Here we are taught that God’s Spirit is the Agent who “quickens” a sinner to spiritual life, and that the flesh is profitless. The flesh is absolutely unprofitable in every respect. It is carnal, not spiritual.
The Two Natures
So when a person is saved, he is “quickened” to life-spiritual life in Christ-by the Spirit of God, and the flesh is not concerned therewith in the least degree. Thus, the Christian now has two natures that are alive-he has the fleshly nature and the spiritual nature. His spiritual nature was once “dead” (without Christ), but is now alive, so there are now two natures. The fleshly nature is the nature that he received from Adam at physical birth, and his spiritual nature is the nature he received from Christ when born again.
Paul tells us of these two natures in Galatians 5:17: “For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.” Here we are told that the two natures of a Christian-his fleshly nature and his spiritual nature-are at war with each other.
Paul teaches the same truth in Romans 7:22-23, 25b: “For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.”
We see here that both the spiritual nature and the fleshly nature are in every born-again child of God.
We Do Not Teach “A Sinning Religion”
I want to say in this connection that Baptists do not teach that a Christian has the privilege of “sinning a little every day,” as you may have heard some preacher say over the radio or TV. That doctrine is of the devil, and the idea that Baptists teach such-regardless of who said it-is of the devil.
What Baptists teach is exactly what Paul taught-that the flesh is good for nothing (spiritually) and that the Spirit and the old flesh are at war in the Christian. Baptists do not teach that a person can live a “sinless” life in the flesh, for as long as we are in the flesh, we shall have this warfare going on between the Spirit and flesh.
I heard a “sinless perfection” preacher once say that one could live sinless, but he would make “a few errors and mistakes along the way.” Now, where did this preacher ever get the idea that errors and mistakes are not breaches of the Law?
God’s Law demands absolute perfection, and one error or mistake brings condemnation. Listen to James 2:10-“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”
Sin is sin, despite the fact that some want to excuse it as an error or a mistake.
How Made Perfect
Secondly, look into the Scriptures and read how we are “made perfect.” The Law demands perfection, if we are to enter Heaven. Now, how are we to be perfect?
Well, we are made absolutely perfect before the Law of God by the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ.
Jesus lived in the flesh, under Law, and He kept the Law perfectly. Then He died to satisfy the Law’s demands against sin. Thus, He established the Law. He fulfilled both the perceptive and penal sanctions of the Law.
This is the righteousness Christ wrought out for us. It is absolutely perfect. When God saves us, He clothes us with this righteousness, and we stand perfect before the Law. We don’t have another deed to do to fulfill the Law’s demands, for Christ did it all. Listen to the Scripture:
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth -Rom. 10:4.
For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified -Heb. 10:14.
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him -II Cor. 5:21.
Now, that’s how we are made perfect. Without holiness, no man shall see the Lord, and Jesus Christ’s righteousness is given to us and thereby we are made holy.
Brother, sister, you can have all the so-called “sinless perfection” you can muster up, but I would not swap the perfect righteousness that is mine in Christ for all the fleshly righteousness of all the so-called “sinless” people in the world. The whole crowd of self-righteous, hypocritical, white-washed Pharisees will split Hell wide open without the perfect, holy, imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ (Matt. 5:19-20).
“Cannot Sin?”
Thirdly, I want to show you that the born-again person cannot sin in the new nature – (not the old, but the new) – the nature given to him when he was quickened by the Spirit. Listen to I John 3:9-“Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”
Notice that phrase, “he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” But according to the notion of the “sinless perfection” crowd, a Christian can sin! I heard one say over the radio just a few days ago that “if you sin after you’re saved, you’re lost again.” But this verse says that a saint cannot sin!
But, what will the “sinless perfection” crowd do with that verse? Will they accept it? If so, they will have to come on over and believe in eternal security, for if a person cannot sin, then he is secure eternally. But if they teach that one born of God can sin, then they deny God’s Word. Now, which horn will Mr. Sinless Perfection take? He is stabbed to death on either one.
Now, what does this verse teach? It is telling us that the man born of God does not and cannot sin, because the seed of God-the new nature begotten by the Spirit-remains in him. Now, the flesh isn’t born of God. That which is born of flesh is flesh. But the “new man”-the spiritual man-is born of God. It is this inward man-the new nature-that does not and cannot sin.
When God saved us, He did not change our old Adamic fleshly nature one particle; He simply gave us a new nature. Now, we have two: one of them wants to sin, the other fights against sin, and causes us to serve the Lord. All sin is of the old fleshly nature, and all good is of the spiritual nature. This new nature (new man) cannot sin and cannot even approve of a sinful thought.
Another verse that teaches us this same truth is I John 5:18-“We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.”
You see, here we have security again. The new man keeps himself, and the devil cannot touch him. The only nature the devil can touch is the old flesh. The old flesh is nothing but a mass of sin.
We won’t have this old body of sin in Heaven, for the Lord will give us a new body. No sinful thing can enter Heaven, so God doesn’t take the old sinful body to Heaven. Beloved, the very fact that Christians die, physically, proves that they are not sinless in the body. Do you realize that the only thing that causes either physical or eternal death is sin? Thus, if we were sinlessly prefect in the flesh, we would never die, for there would be no sin to cause us to die. In view of the fact that we all die, it is quite evident that no one is perfect in the old flesh.
Sinless Perfectionists Are Void of the Truth
Lastly, I want to call your attention to God’s indictment against those who loudly boast that they are sinless. Let us read in I John 1:8-“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”
Now, the next time you hear a so-called “sinless preacher” or “falling from grace” person tell you how holy he is, you just recall this verse, and remember that it states that such a person does not have the truth in him, and is deceived by himself. Yes, they deceive themselves, the verse says. Do you know what that means? It simply means that a person has hypocritically lied and said that he is sinless, and he has said it so long, he has deceived himself. You know, you can tell a lie for the truth so long that you yourself will believe it. That’s the case with so-called “sinless perfectionists.” They have deceived themselves.
But notice I John 1:10-“If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
You know, if a person were to say, “God you are a liar!” we would think that it is a horrible blasphemy. Well, when the so-called sinless, holy people of this world say they have no sin in the flesh, they make God a liar. Let’s read the verse again: “If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us” (I John 1:10). All liars shall have their part in the lake of fire, and the man who lies by saying his flesh is sinless is on the road to Hell, in front of the whole line of liars, for he has lied on God. God’s Word says that the flesh is full of sin, carnal, sold under sin, but the sinless perfectionist calls God a liar, and says, “Well, here’s one exception.”
These so-called “sinless perfectionists” know that we don’t tell people to “sin a little every day;” they know what we teach. We teach that good works are the fruits of being born of the Spirit; but those works are not motivated by the flesh, but by the Spirit. The flesh profits nothing. The Spirit, thank God, fights against our old flesh, and causes us to win the victory day-by-day.
The trouble with those who boast and talk about “sinless perfection” is that they are blind spiritually, and may need to be born again and clothed in the righteousness of Jesus Christ. May God grant that it may be so.
In closing, let me say that the doctrine of sinless perfection will do one of two things to the person who believes it! It will either make a man (1) a self-righteous hypocrite, or (2) it will make him an infidel.
Now, here is why this is true. Only a hypocrite would profess to be perfect in the flesh. The most godly Christians who have ever lived were not those who boasted about being perfect in the flesh, but those who moaned over the sinfulness of their flesh. Nowhere in the Bible do the writers ever claim perfection in the flesh. Why, even in the spiritual realm, the Apostle Paul had this to say, even after he had been saved for a great number of years:
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark of the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus-Philippians 3:12-14.
Thus, the man who claims any perfection except that perfection which we have in Christ and the new nature, is a hypocrite. He is not sinless in the flesh and simply lies if he says that he is. He is exactly like the Pharisees of old who thought that they, too, were sinless in the flesh.
Now, this doctrine will make an infidel out of a man because anyone with common sense realizes that he cannot be perfect in the flesh. Thus, when one hears the doctrine of “sinless perfection,” and hears all the boasting of the bossy women and hen-pecked men who claim to be sinless, then that man will say, “Well, if that’s Christianity, then I don’t believe a word of it.”
Well, you don’t have to be a hypocrite or an infidel; if you will just take your Bible and study it, you will find that what I have preached to you is the Word of God, and that sinless perfection is of the devil.
Adam and Flat Teddy’s Self-Professed “Sinless Perfectionism” is Really More Sin
Posted : 3 Apr, 2021 08:29 AM
rsvp the self proclaimed apostle and writer of the new world order 'bible' of 'christianity' in its EVERY-day continually sinning perfectionist posts -
'some misinterpret these verses to mean that Christians can attain sinless perfection. After all, John says that “no one who lives in Him sins” (1 John 3:6, NASB) and that “no one who is born of God sins” (5:18, NASB). Based on those verses, they reason, sin must be a thing of the past. If you commit a sin, that’s proof that you are not saved, because Christians are sinless. But that is not what John is teaching.' end quote.
Gosh not only does unrighteous rsvp that continually sins in order to be found MORE unrighteous to perfection but he is the ONLY one that can interpret these verses for John in what he writes to his readers! But not only that, rsvp is a mind reader, a palm reader that can tell you that anyone that CLAIMS the POWER from YHWH to keep you from sinning must SURELY be claiming 'sin must be a thing of the past' when NOBODY has stated that here on this forum! rsvp is a slanderer!!!
The fact of the matter is a sinner is a sinner and when they CONTINUE to sin (like for instance break the Sabbath every week) then that is PROOF BY TORAH LAW that they are a TRANSGRESSOR (Lawbreaker!) and therefore...... = UNRIGHTEOUS/UNSAVED! Its really simple for David and rsvp then, just make a self righteous continual sinning statement that John just HAS TO BE teaching - everyone that lives in Him sins, instead of “no one who lives in Him sins” (1 John 3:6, NASB)
rsvp the self proclaimed apostle and writer of the new world order 'bible' of 'christianity' in its EVERY-day continually sinning perfectionist ALSO posts - 'We know that, when John writes that believers do not continue to sin, he is not referring to sinless perfection because of what he writes elsewhere in the same epistle.'
Well there you go readers, the gospel from the smelly stables in doctrinal of lips/JAWS of rsvp over John! The old 'John' has CONTRADICTIONS and we are 'blessed' with new fresh smelling 'stable' doctrine from the NEW (and order) 'john' of rsvp!
Then rsvp the self proclaimed apostle and writer of the new world order 'bible' of 'christianity' in its EVERY-day continually sinning perfectionist goes on to posts - "To believers John says, “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8). So, we are all sinners, and we continue to struggle with sin even after we are saved.'
You see friends and readers, rsvp does NOT think the Bible is written for the UNSAVED also as well as for the SAVED, that the UNSAVED are possibly reading it for the first time, when it says to the lost that CLAIM they don't sin - “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8). So what does rsvp do to support his right to keep on sinning and a license to do so and his doctrine to continually sinning the more righteous you are? Why of course, just claim 1 John 1:8 is speaking to the RIGHTEOUS because according to rsvp new smell 'stable' doctrine, 'we are all' CONTINUAL 'sinners, and we >>>continue<<< to struggle with sin (by the POWER from heaven?) even after we are saved.'
rsvp JUST does not know the difference in verses DIRECTED to the RIGHTEOUS when John says that “no one who lives in Him sins” (1 John 3:6, NASB) and that “no one who is born of God sins” (5:18, NASB), to that of the UNRIGHTEOUS when John says “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8).
Its just so simple to understand CONTEXT but not to those that LOVE their sins like rsvp and David, its confusion because of their 'god' of sin!
Finally the REAL exposer to rsvp's dilemma! Remember when rsvp posted Paul was supposedly saying at resurrection day that we will be changed to be like the Messiah and reading into Paul's teaching that we will be sinless at that moment? When I called out rsvp in that thread, that the CONTEXT was of Paul speaking of a BODY CHANGE ONLY and NOT a mind and heart change at that time but rsvp of COURSE never replied when I OWNED him! You see readers, rsvp claims Paul is saying ONLY the body sins and therefore DIRECTS the mind and heart, when its the OPPOSITE that it is really the heart and mind that DIRECTS or CAUSES the body to sin! The heart and mind is changed >>>BEFORE<<< Christ returns to be like Him in ORDER to be FOUND righteous at that time! He/she that is filthy let him/her be filthy still and he/she that is CLEAN/sin free be CLEAN/sin free still!
So when confused rsvp states - 'We will never know a total absence of sin until we are with the Lord in glory: “When Christ appears, we shall be like him” (1 John 3:2).'
So according to rsvp then, he claims ROBOTISM outside the will of man in the future to that of the here and now BY FAITH and POWER from above because the change of "saints" according to rsvp, takes place at the moment of his return and those sinning will be FORCED to stop sinning! rsvp fresh smelling 'stable' doctrine then makes sense in his view of PREDESTINED 'saints' in programming!
Sooo finally when rsvp writes (but does not comprehend!) - “When Christ appears, we shall be like him” (1 John 3:2).' Its then TRUE that when Christ DOES Appear, we will already be like Him (sinless by FAITH) according to the Bible because the CHANGE of HEART and MIND is DONE >>BEFORE<<< He comes for His saints and that's what DIRECTS our bodies!
Adam and Flat Teddy’s Self-Professed “Sinless Perfectionism” is Really More Sin
Posted : 3 Apr, 2021 08:59 AM
poor old fix a flat toothless wonder and star of GUMS
if you knew something about New Testament Greek, you can simply pull out your Greek New Testament and see for yourself how the original word is being used. The verb form in question, hamartenei, is in the present tense. To be precise, the verb is third person singular, present, active indicative.
similar passage, 1 John 3:6, we need to keep in mind “John’s use of the present tense of the verb”:
“John is not suggesting that the child of God will not commit a single act of sin. Instead, John is describing a way of life, a character, a prevailing lifestyle. Here the present tense verb contextually depicts linear, continual action. In other words, the believer will not live a life characterized by sin.”
So getting a proper handle on the original language and how best to translate that into English is a major part of how we deal with this text. And the principles of reading each text in context, and letting Scripture interpret Scripture, also offer us a way to proceed here.
Adam and Flat Teddy’s Self-Professed “Sinless Perfectionism” is Really More Sin
Posted : 3 Apr, 2021 09:20 AM
when it comes to fix a flats rendering of 1st John 3:2
Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is........
he somehow weaves through his overactive imagination that this pertains to sinless perfectionism " It has not yet been revealed what we shall be:". ...... Though our present standing is plain, our future destiny is clouded. We don’t know in the kind of detail we would like to know what we will become in the world beyond. In this sense, we can’t even imagine what we will be like in glory.
“What we are does not now appear to the world; what we shall be does not yet appear to us.” (Stott)
" We shall be like Him:" ........... Now pay attention GUMS This reminds us that even though we grow into the image of Jesus now, we still have a long way to go. None of us will be finished until we see Jesus, and only then truly we shall be like Him
Paul said of our present walk, For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known (1 Corinthians 13:12). Today, when we look in a good mirror, the image is clear. But in the ancient world, mirrors were made out of polished metal, and the image was always unclear and somewhat distorted. We see Jesus now only in a dim, unclear way, but one day we will see Him with perfect clarity
simply put fix a flat when we are born again we are counted as righteous before God but that doesn't mean we have attained sinless perfection prior to the rapture
Adam and Flat Teddy’s Self-Professed “Sinless Perfectionism” is Really More Sin
Posted : 3 Apr, 2021 09:28 AM
David correctly posts about CONTINUAL sinners when he quotes what the Bible says about them and what happens to them - DEATH - 'their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.' Its so clear!
Then strangely David teaches that CONTINUAL sinners get eternal life in a fire and will eat off the 'tree of life' in that fire. so that they can continue to suffer, be in pain and CONTINUE to sin! David claims YHWH will keep sin alive and well for all to see! YICKS! That's an interesting self made doctrine to readers? No?
David falsely accuses Ted of teaching - 'Teddy doesn’t believe in the eternality of hell which is clearly taught in the Bible.'
When I have been quite CLEAR in all my posts that I DO 'believe in the eternality of hell' for the wicked which is ETERNAL DEATH! The wages of sin is DEATH, NOT eternal life in a fire as FALSE teaching David claims! (Roman 6:23!)
THEN when the 'eternality of hell' (which is none other than the grave) is said and done, even 'hell' (grave) will be cast into the lake of fire (Rev 20:14!) with the 'second death' because there WILL BE NO MORE deaths and graves/hells!
Adam and Flat Teddy’s Self-Professed “Sinless Perfectionism” is Really More Sin
Posted : 3 Apr, 2021 02:46 PM
1 John 3:9
King James Bible
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God
New American Standard Bible
No one who has been born of God practices sin, because His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin continually, because he has been born of God
In 1 John 3:9, the Greek word ποιεῖ (poiei) means to do, to practice. The V3SPAI is shorthand for Verb, 3rd Person Singular, Present, Active, Indicative. Likewise, VPAN means, Verb, Present, Active, Indicative.
ποιέωa: a marker of an agent relation with a numerable event—‘to do, to perform, to practice, to make.’ διδάσκων καὶ πορείαν ποιούμενος εἰς Ιεροσόλυμα ‘teaching as he made a journey to Jerusalem’ Lk 13:22; οἱ μαθηταὶ Ἰωάννου νηστεύουσιν πυκνὰ καὶ δεήσεις ποιοῦνται ‘John’s disciples often fast and pray’ Lk 5:33; τῷ σῷ ὀνόματι δυνάμεις πολλὰς ἐποιήσαμεν ‘in your name we did many miracles’ Mt 7:22; πίστει πεποίηκεν τὸ πάσχα ‘by faith he performed the Passover’ Heb 11:28.”
So we see that the word means to do, to practice. But that isn’t all. In Greek, like English, there are verb tenses: past, present, future. But in Greek, the present tense is not quite the same as the English. Instead, it is more of continuous action.
Present tense: “The verb tense where the writer portrays an action in process or a state of being with no assessment of the action’s completion.”
Finally, in 1 John 3:9 we see an infinitive form of a verb. The infinitive is “to go,” “to see,” “to eat,” etc. This is important.
“And he cannot sin (και οὐ δυναται ἁμαρτανειν [kai ou dunatai hamartanein]). This is a wrong translation, for this English naturally means “and he cannot commit sin” as if it were και οὐ δυναται ἁμαρτειν [kai ou dunatai hamartein] or ἁμαρτησαι [hamartēsai] (second aorist or first aorist active infinitive). The present active infinitive ἁμαρτανειν [hamartanein] can only mean “and he cannot go on sinning,” as is true of ἁμαρτανει [hamartanei] in verse 8 and ἁμαρτανων [hamartanōn] in verse 6
Thus, in the verses that seem to imply that a Christian cannot ever sin, John isn’t really addressing the question “can a Christian sin?” but rather “can a Christian live continuously in a pattern of unrepentant sin?”
Conclusion
There is no contradiction. What is happening is that John is saying that the one who is born again does not habitually abide in sin. He may fall into it, but he does not practice it as a lifestyle. The nuances of the Greek language are not carried over to the English, but when we understand what is happening, we then see there is no problem.
finally, any Christian who would say that he does not sin anymore fails to agree with 1 John 1:8 which says, “If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” He would then be self-deceived. Can a Christian sin? Yes. But the Spirit will continue to work in and through that sin as we battle it day by day. We won’t be sin’s continuous slaves
end quote.
that can tell you that anyone that CLAIMS the POWER from YHWH to keep you from sinning must SURELY be claiming 'sin must be a thing of the past' when NOBODY has stated that here on this forum! 
rsvp is a slanderer!!! 
Its really simple for David and rsvp then, just make a self righteous continual sinning statement that John just HAS TO BE teaching - everyone that lives in Him sins, instead of “no one who lives in Him sins” (1 John 3:6, NASB) 
because of what he writes elsewhere in the same epistle.' 
The old 'John' has CONTRADICTIONS 
goes on to posts - "To believers John says, “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8). So, we are all sinners, and we continue to struggle with sin even after we are saved.' 
Why of course, just claim 1 John 1:8 is speaking to the RIGHTEOUS because according to rsvp new smell 'stable' doctrine, 'we are all' CONTINUAL 'sinners, and we >>>continue<<< to struggle with sin (by the POWER from heaven?) even after we are saved.' 
He/she that is filthy let him/her be filthy still and he/she that is CLEAN/sin free be CLEAN/sin free still! 
Its so clear! 