Thread: Should a Christian claim to be sinless this side of eternity? -- bonus questions @ the bottom of the message
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Should a Christian claim to be sinless this side of eternity? -- bonus questions @ the bottom of the message
Posted : 27 Feb, 2021 05:14 PM
No, a Christian cannot achieve sinless perfection; that is, on this side of heaven. Though there are Christians who say they do not sin anymore, they are in error. In order to achieve a sinless state of perfection, the Christian’s motivations would have to be pure and perfect at all times because God looks at the condition of the heart as well as our actions. Consider the following verses.
Matthew 5:28, “but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.“
Matthew 22:37, “And He said to him, “‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’”
Matthew 22:39, “‘The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’”
We see that Jesus taught that the intention of the heart is important to God. This is because God’s heart is perfect. He is holy which is why He says in 1 Peter 1:16, “Be holy, for I am holy.” God is the standard of holiness, and Jesus reveals the necessity of the perfect standard.
Can any Christian say that his heart is perfect and that he never falters? That he never looks upon a woman with impure thoughts? That he loves the Lord God with all of his heart, and that he loves his neighbor as himself, all with a perfect state of mind? The standard is absolute purity. None of us can claim that.
But there are those who say the Bible says we do not sin.
1 John 3:6, “No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.”
1 John 3:9, “No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”
1 John 5:18, “We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.”
The Bible is not saying that we don’t sin. Those verses in 1 John are talking about abiding in sin. That is not what Christians do. In fact, 1 John earlier in the same epistle states the following.
1 John 1:8, “If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.”
1 John 2:1, “My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.”
Notice that John the apostle includes himself in the issue of sinning. Are the sinless perfectionist people more holy than John the apostle? I think not.
So, a Christian is to struggle against his sin and to see this before God. But we cannot say that every intention of our hearts is always perfect and pure. If it were, we would not need an intercessor before God once we are saved. The idea of sinless perfectionism is an error that is refuted by Scripture.
QUESTIONS
a) the bible warns against bearing a false witness so if we tell unbelieving co workers families and friends that we are sinless when we are not the scriptures warn that we will be found out , wouldn't that damage our testimony?
Luke 12:3 ..........and what you have whispered in the inner rooms will be proclaimed from the housetops
b) One of the reasons for the assumption of a human nature by the Christ is so that the Christ might be tempted as a man and be able to sympathize with men (Heb. 2:14-18). If we elevate Christ’s impeccability in a way that casts aside his temptability, is that not out of step with Scripture ?
c) God is immutable unchanging For example, in Malachi 3:6 God affirms, "I the Lord do not change." doesn't fly off the handle easily , nor a respecter of persons , doesn't entertain him pure thoughts etc etc
So even if a born-again Christian maintains they are sinless in their daily walk are they not attributing the divine attribute of immutability to themselves which is only reserved for God?
Should a Christian claim to be sinless this side of eternity? -- bonus questions @ the bottom of the message
Posted : 1 Mar, 2021 12:22 AM
"Can any Christian say that his heart is perfect and that he never falters? That he never looks upon a woman with impure thoughts? That he loves the Lord God with all of his heart, and that he loves his neighbor as himself, all with a perfect state of mind? The standard is absolute purity. None of us can claim that."
2 Corinthians 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
"The Bible is not saying that we don’t sin. Those verses in 1 John are talking about abiding in sin. That is not what Christians do. In fact, 1 John earlier in the same epistle states the following."
Doing righteousness is not doing sin (practising or non practising) as it is to be righteous as even Christ
Doing any sin is the devils way(practising, habitual or non) as Gods purpose is to destroy all evil works of the devil
The last testimony then says, when we do not do righteousness, we are of God ( the deceiver states that non practising non habiitual sin is righteousness)...
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
"1 John 2:1, “My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.”
Notice that John the apostle includes himself in the issue of sinning. Are the sinless perfectionist people more holy than John the apostle? I think not."
Ignoring all that, the deceiver goes back to 1 John 2, and states that this is the Apostles saying they cant do only righteousness.
But I already answered that, here it is clearly for the deceiver:
it's not good to not know God, it means the person is a liar, and knowing God as Jesus showed us, is keeping His saying..
John 8:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
You might wonder, what is His word, to keep ?
1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
Very truly clear, to love one another is to also believe on the name of the Son of God Jesus Christ..
Then the last teaching is when we love one another, we fulfil the law ( of Christ which deceivers shout loud no law ) and we do no theft, adultery, stealing, lying ( remember if we say we know God and do not keep His word as Christ we lie and no truth is in us) and love works no ill to our neighbour..
Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
"The standard is absolute purity. None of us can claim that."
"our flesh will change from the corruptible to the uncorruptible during the rapture .@ that point our flesh our new bodies will no longer be subject to temptation to sin. 1 Corinthians 15:52 moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed"
Does anyone notice, the deceiver tries to demean the word of God, its doing nothing else.
We, being corruptible, put on incorruptible now, be born again now, is the change now for the mortal, to put on Jesus now who is the immortal, seeing this is to purify ourselves through the Spirit in us now, with a pure heart now..
1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
The testimony is to put on all now, put n Christ now, to avoid the flesh, baptized of the Holy Ghost now, as the elect of God put on mercies, as those that are alive from the dead NOW as instruments of righteousness unto God ( not unrighteousness as you know who, the devil teaches..
Romans 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Should a Christian claim to be sinless this side of eternity? -- bonus questions @ the bottom of the message
Posted : 1 Mar, 2021 09:44 AM
Dear brother Adam7777 and friends! This is an incredible deception from the BLIND deciever and his own posts! rsvp posts ONLY the three (maybe because he has a hang-up on a 'trinity' of verses? LOL! ) verses to make his deceptive point, yet it backfires in his face! Lets look at those he posts and discuss them.
1 John 3:6, “No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.”
1 John 3:9, “No one who is born of YHWH practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of YHWH.”
1 John 5:18, “We know that no one who is born of YHWH sins; but He who was born of YHWH keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.”
THEN CRAZY LIKE rsvp states this - 'The Bible is not saying that we don’t sin. Those verses in 1 John are talking about abiding in sin. That is not what Christians do.'
Of course REAL Christians DO NOT SIN! Is this absurdity in reasoning by the deceiver or what??? VERY clearly in 1 John 3:6 it says - NO ONE that abides in Him, meaning in the Father YHWH, a REAL LOVING relationship with Him AND BY HIS POWER commits sin! READ IT - 'No one who abides in Him sins' it says !!! YET the deceiver rsvp DESPERATELY tries to believe that everyone keeps on sinning by LYING to himself and us that the 'Bible is not saying that we don’t sin' he states, when its the EXACT Opposite of what the CONTEXT of Bible has to say on living a RIGHTEOUS NON SINNING life in the here and now! Good grief, can you believe this dude? But he is NOT the primary fault as I was taught this ALL MY YOUTHFUL life in 'church' of the CULT I attended with my parents! NOT ANYMORE because the truth will set you free the Bible says when you study with a UNBAISED mind and heart that rsvp OBVIOUSLY is NOT presently using!
BUTTTTT the Bible goes on in CONTEXT because it says in 1 John 3:9, 'No one who is born of YHWH practices sin' meaning what? Its so clear, that if you are BORN AGAIN you don't entertain sin, which is to say PRACTICE IT, at all but then there are deceivers like Moondim that say as long as we are not practicing sinning, then its ok to sin some (HA! ) because we cannot help it, at least until we are changed into ROBOTS come resurrection day, according to her and rsvp! ABSURDITY! The whole deceiving concept comes from their SELF 'god' inside of them and their LOVE for their present sins obviously, that they think the Bible says otherwise (they want it to!) because they cannot CEASE from sinning!!! YICKS!
BUT where does that POWER come from to keep us from sinning, WHILE STILL LIVING ON EARTH, or as rsvp says 'this side of heaven' in the here and now? 1 John 5:18, 'He who was born of YHWH keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.' DOES NOT get any clearer than that! So WHERE is the problem with rsvp and moon that they claim they keep sinning like pink energizer bunnies every moment and day? THEY DENY THE POWER FROM HEAVEN TO KEEP FROM SINNING obviously! Correct?
AGAIN THE BIBLE SAYS CLEARLY - 'We know that no one who is born of YHWH sins'!!! Did you catch that? Everyone that is truly BORN AGAIN, which is to say BORN OF YHWH, in the HERE AND NOW, does NOT sin!!!
Once again rsvp house of cards has fallen by his heresy of continual sinning perfectionism teaching!
Should a Christian claim to be sinless this side of eternity? -- bonus questions @ the bottom of the message
Posted : 1 Mar, 2021 01:12 PM
I'll stop confessing my sins when I'm dead.
The whole truth is not revealed in one hit, there is so much to know. The more I know the more I realize there is that I don't know.
I sleep easy which is the main thing. It's not for me to be too concerned with everyone else, I say what I see and people can make of it what they will.
Should a Christian claim to be sinless this side of eternity? -- bonus questions @ the bottom of the message
Posted : 1 Mar, 2021 02:51 PM
"I'll stop confessing my sins when I'm dead."
Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
Proverbs 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
"I sleep easy which is the main thing. It's not for me to be too concerned with everyone else"
Proverbs 4:14 Enter not into the path of the wicked, and go not in the way of evil men.
15 Avoid it, pass not by it, turn from it, and pass away.
16 For they sleep not, except they have done mischief; and their sleep is taken away, unless they cause some to fall.
Psalm 73:3 For I was envious at the foolish, when I saw the prosperity of the wicked.
4 For there are no bands in their death: but their strength is firm.
5 They are not in trouble as other men; neither are they plagued like other men.
6 Therefore pride compasseth them about as a chain; violence covereth them as a garment.
7 Their eyes stand out with fatness: they have more than heart could wish.
8 They are corrupt, and speak wickedly concerning oppression: they speak loftily.
Job 21:7 Wherefore do the wicked live, become old, yea, are mighty in power?
8 Their seed is established in their sight with them, and their offspring before their eyes.
9 Their houses are safe from fear, neither is the rod of God upon them.
Should a Christian claim to be sinless this side of eternity? -- bonus questions @ the bottom of the message
Posted : 2 Mar, 2021 12:29 PM
If you want to go deep consider this, every time you participate in society spending money and paying taxes you are supporting a government that is sending forces to foreign countries and killing innocent people.
So by fueling the machine that is causing misery around the world are you walking the path of the wicked? You have a choice, you can choose to do only the bare minimum work to live and give no credence to the system of slavery you are under or you can carry on your merry way living a life of luxury off the back of people less fortunate than yourself producing your goods in a poor country and pretend you are not contributing to it. Nobody is sinless this side of eternity and on the judgement day anyone who thinks they are is going to have a nasty shock. Hiding behind the Bible is not going to negate your part in this reality. I'm humble enough to know that I am limited to how much I can do to improve the world and not contribute to the harm caused to other people. I am contributing to bad things in the world every time I start my car (petro dollar), pay tax, buy goods from a poor country or even acknowledge the opinion of an oppressive corporation known as the government that does not have mine or anyone else's best interests at heart.
Nothing has changed since Jesus time except the names. At least the Jews synagogues were not controlled by the government. Christian churches allow governments to dictate when and how they can meet and worship so not really what you call progress.
Nobody is innocent, nobody is not sinning in some way shape or form, just most people choose not to see the reality that is in their face. And why would they? If most people understood just how much power and influence evil has in the world they would probably self delete. Only the most stoic can see what is there and take it on knowing that they will often lose the battles on the way.
Should a Christian claim to be sinless this side of eternity? -- bonus questions @ the bottom of the message
Posted : 2 Mar, 2021 09:21 PM
Marcouse, I see what you are doing, you want to excuse everything is a sin and therefore everyone is a continual sinner, so SIN until you can't sin anymore! Dude wake up, we are NOT responsible for what governments do with taxpayers money because THEY will be accountable for what they did and what they know! The Bible says to much is given, much is required and therefore everyone will be held accountable for what they know.
There is NO WAY to know what the taxpayers money is used for, good or corruption but this the Bible is clear on, that when you know something is WRONG that you personally see and understand and you still do it, then you have sinned! We then give unto Caesar what is CAESARS but we are NOT responsible for their sins and we don't even know WHAT they are but the books in heaven, recorded by angels have it ALL documented!
On the issue with so called 'churches', they have ZERO FAITH and no back bone! Its suppose to be freedom of religion and assembly, right? How soon have they forgotten what country they live in because they are worried in FEAR that UNCLE SAP is going to round them ALL up and throw them ALL in jail for assembling! LMBO! They REALLY BELIEVE it but what they don't WANT to know is if they ALL (HUNDREDS or THOUSANDS) of people just laugh in their faces, is there enough jails to hold them all??? HA! They forget its WE THE PEOPLE but they are INDIVIDUAL cowards, calling themselves believers as a group!? LOL! Has not in any way effected our assembly but we assemble in homes but if they tried we would just go to jail then, everyone has agreed!
Sooo Marcouse you don't "hide behind the Bible' YOU LIVE IT to the CORE! Not responsible for the sins of others, the Bible is REAL clear on that but what we ARE held accountable for is to the TIMING and obedience to TORAH LAW in the Bible, for that is WHAT the Bible identifies WHAT sin actually is - for I would not of known what sin is except by the Law, the Bible says! ! Everyone that knows to do good and does NOT do it, to him or her it is a sin! AGAIN, to much is given, much is required!!! Its that simple!
Marcouse states - 'Nobody is innocent, >>>nobody is not sinning<<< in some way shape or form, just most people choose not to see the reality that is in their face.' That is a frightening UNBIBLICAL statement Sir and none of it can be further from the truth!
Was Paul LYING to us when he wrotes this - 1 Corinthians 15:34 >>>Awake to righteousness, and sin not;<<< for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame
Did the youngest Apostle LIE to us - 1 John 5:18 '>>>We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;<<< but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
I could give you SOOOOOOO many more verses that CLEARLY says when people are CONVERTED from being continual sinners, its THEN they become saints that were truly BORN AGAIN! Its FAITH that saves you because that is WHERE your belief starts and ends! There are verses for UNBELIEVERS like - for all have sinned and fell short of the glory of YHWH- AND ANOTHER - If you say you have never sinned, then you make Him out to be a liar and the truth is NOT in you...... And sooo many more verses but THEN there are the verses for the BORN AGAIN SAINTS like the two I posted above and so many more! You see how simple that is Marcouse and Moon when you read the Bible in its meaning and context?
So what is the opposite of what Moon just stated IN HER OWN THOUGHTS apart from what the Bible says in it CONTEXT??? She could of also posted this then - Bible DOES teach UN-perfectionism..... And what is the result of living an UNRIGHTIOUS/UNPERFECT life when denying POWER from heaven above to do so??? Eternal death! YICKS!
Moon also writes - 'Any man that thinks he is, needs enlightened by God.'
Man or Woman should NEVER have to even think they are perfect because the credit ALWAYS goes to the Father that GAVE THE POWER to turn away from sin and be perfect! Did you forget that BIBLICAL fact Moon - for greater is He (YHWH) that in you than he (the devil) is of this world!
Live in this world for now but DON'T be part of its wicked ways! Moon the two verses above, 1 Corinthians 15:34 and 1 John 5:18 just 'enlightened' you to the truth and there is your 'needs' to understand! OK?
Should a Christian claim to be sinless this side of eternity? -- bonus questions @ the bottom of the message
Posted : 3 Mar, 2021 10:12 AM
I'm not excusing anything, but to say we don't know what is being done with our tax money is a lie. We pretty much have it shoved in our face all the time, you would have to be blind not to see the continual corruption in the system.
So the Germans were guilt free for not only allowing Hitler into power but acquiescing and allowing their Jewish neighbors to be slaughtered? Those perpetrating the actions were ok because they were only following orders?
History always repeats itself and at some point we will have to pick a side and face the consequences. Paul didn't say you won't sin he told you not too which is not the same thing.
I'm not trying to win any argument either, I'm enjoying a debate as I want to fill in as many holes in my own knowledge and thinking as possible, the more people that can chip in the better with any opinion.
Should a Christian claim to be sinless this side of eternity? -- bonus questions @ the bottom of the message
Posted : 3 Mar, 2021 10:21 AM
"History always repeats itself and at some point we will have to pick a side and face the consequences. Paul didn't say you won't sin he told you not too which is not the same thing."
Again, non biblical words, which are vanity when not the words of life.
History has repeated itself, all the wrong spirits want to do is predict something coming in the future, and never looking at the testimony of Christ which has come true already.
The new covenant is the law written in the heart, you do not need to be told not to do evil against others, it is without choice or awareness, placed into you. Why would God write faulty laws into someone, to do some good and some bad, that's faithless talk.
The day of Christ comes as a thief in the night,m as all people want to do is talk, and be selfish, and we know Gods judgement by now, as you love cursing, so it comes upon us, as we do not delight in blessing, so it will be far from us, and forever.
rsvp posts ONLY the three (maybe because he has a hang-up on a 'trinity' of verses? LOL! 
) verses to make his deceptive point, yet it backfires in his face! 
Lets look at those he posts and discuss them.
Those verses in 1 John are talking about abiding in sin. That is not what Christians do.' 
VERY clearly in 1 John 3:6 it says - NO ONE that abides in Him, meaning in the Father YHWH, a REAL LOVING relationship with Him AND BY HIS POWER commits sin! 
Good grief, can you believe this dude? 
But he is NOT the primary fault as I was taught this ALL MY YOUTHFUL life in 'church' of the CULT I attended with my parents! 
NOT ANYMORE because the truth will set you free the Bible says when you study with a UNBAISED mind and heart that rsvp OBVIOUSLY is NOT presently using! 
) because we cannot help it, at least until we are changed into ROBOTS come resurrection day, according to her and rsvp! 
So WHERE is the problem with rsvp and moon that they claim they keep sinning like pink energizer bunnies every moment and day? 
THEY DENY THE POWER FROM HEAVEN TO KEEP FROM SINNING obviously! 
Correct?
Its suppose to be freedom of religion and assembly, right? 
Has not in any way effected our assembly but we assemble in homes but if they tried we would just go to jail then, everyone has agreed! 
AGAIN, to much is given, much is required!!! Its that simple! 
Its FAITH that saves you because that is WHERE your belief starts and ends! 