Thread: The Godless heresy of sinless perfection -- so dd you hear about the magician that only performed illusions with chocolate? He always had a few Twix up his sleeves
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The Godless heresy of sinless perfection -- so dd you hear about the magician that only performed illusions with chocolate? He always had a few Twix up his sleeves
Posted : 27 Feb, 2021 08:19 AM
rob the average man of his illusion and you rob him of his happiness at one stroke. -- Henrik Ibsen
how can a heresy be ‘godly’? In short, it can’t. Godliness is about conformity to sound doctrine (Titus 2:1). However, most cases of (reasonably convincing) false teaching will consist of biblical truths that have been skewed in some way. The ingredients are good, but the recipe is incomplete or else has had unwelcome things added, and the result is a theological and practical mess.
Sinless Perfectionism is a doctrine like that. In short, it holds that it is possible for Christians to completely defeat sin in the present life and to live holy lives like Jesus did. At a glance, it makes a lot of sense. Jesus came to save us from sin. He died for our sins on the cross and he sent his Holy Spirit to empower his people to overcome sin and to live obedient, righteous lives in the present (Titus 2:11-14). Christians should have the highest aspirations for living holy lives and rejecting all sin.
Sinless Perfectionism is Unbiblical
However, the Bible also says that ‘If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us’ (1 John 1:8). It speaks of the fact that until the resurrection we must be at war with sinful desires (Galatians 5:16-17). Sin is not an enemy ‘out there’. It’s an enemy within that lives and feeds off our fallen human desires and weaknesses (James 1:13-15). That is why sinless perfectionism is not only untrue but also dangerous. People don’t tend to win battles that they don’t even realise they are supposed to be fighting.
Sinless perfectionism is not only untrue but also dangerous. People don’t tend to win battles that they don’t even realise they are supposed to be fighting.
There is a much-repeated (but possibly untrue) story about the 19th century Baptist preacher C.H. Spurgeon in which he debunked perfectionism in a memorable way.[1]
Spurgeon was at a conference where a preacher taught perfectionism in an outspoken manner and even claimed to have reached a state of sinless perfection himself. Spurgeon didn’t challenge him on the spot. Instead, the next morning he poured a pitcher of milk over the man’s head, to which the ‘perfectionist’ responded with the kind of rage and hostility that you’d expect from any sinner. Perfectionism debunked.
We like this story. It’s funny to hear of false teaching being exposed in an amusing way. But I suspect that our reaction is far too smug. It betrays an attitude of self-assurance at precisely the point where we should feel our greatest need. It demonstrates a disturbing lack of concern about the fact that we sin and that our sin is deeply offensive to God. When we remember this then it’s impossible to gleefully say in our hearts: “you stupid perfectionists—of course we all sin!” Are we pleased with the situation? Have we forgotten what sin is? Even though we know that it’s false, shouldn’t we wish that sinless perfectionism were true? Don’t you long to be free of sin?
Spiritual Complacency is Unbiblical Too
If there is an equal and opposite error to sinless perfectionism then it is the sin of spiritual complacency. It’s shrugging your shoulders at sin’s inevitability. It’s acceptance that sin is just part of life, and I’m OK with that. It’s responding to occasions of sin by almost justifying it with glib lines like: “we know that we all sin.” That is a ghastly attitude for a Christian to have and it needs to be challenged.
If there is an equal and opposite error to sinless perfectionism then it’s shrugging your shoulders at sin’s inevitability—sin is just part of life, and I’m OK with that.
It is easy for me to criticise sinless perfectionism because I don’t personally know any Christians who struggle with this doctrine. However, I dare say that I know an entire evangelical culture that is complacent about sin. We’ve forgotten that sin is ugly and grotesque; the complete opposite to righteousness. We’ve forgotten that God’s will for our lives is that we be holy (1 Thessalonians 4:3). We’ve forgotten that what Christians look forward to above all else is Jesus returning to take away our sin completely. We’ve forgotten that anyone who truly desires that day to come will be obsessed with living a holy life now (1 John 3:2-3).
Jesus taught that Christians would ‘hunger and thirst’ after righteousness (Matthew 5:6). Imagine a man who has been deprived of food and water for far too long. Hunger and thirst are not just a thought in his head, but all-encompassing desires that cannot be ignored. His whole body cries out for sustenance! He will never – can never – be satisfied until his desire is satiated. Is our hunger for righteousness like that? That’s what perfectionism (at its best) gets right. It desires to be without sin. That is a profoundly godly ambition, and one that all Christians should share. We recognise that we will inevitably fall short. But we are not happy about it.
so let's stop kidding ourselves shall we? have you ever sinned even once?
Matthew 5:37 says
All you need to say is simply 'Yes' or 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one
The Godless heresy of sinless perfection -- so dd you hear about the magician that only performed illusions with chocolate? He always had a few Twix up his sleeves
Posted : 27 Feb, 2021 08:51 PM
Moon also writes - 'Christians do not Practice sin. If they are obedient to God's Word'
You sure do like to disguise sin for what it is, don't you moondim? Its real simple, if your sinning, YOUR PRACTICING IT! Good grief you sound STUPID! Then you have the GALL to say its about 'obedient to God's Word' its ok to sin as long as your not PRACTICING IT???
Buuuuuwaaaahahahaha! Your some kind of new kind of OXYMORON in CULT speech???
The Godless heresy of sinless perfection -- so dd you hear about the magician that only performed illusions with chocolate? He always had a few Twix up his sleeves
Posted : 28 Feb, 2021 11:59 PM
it's not good to not know God, it means the person is a liar, and knowing God as Jesus showed us, is keeping His saying..
John 8:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
We might wonder, what is His word, to keep ?
1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
Very truly clear, to love one another is to also believe on the name of the Son of God Jesus Christ..
Then the last teaching is when we love one another, we fulfil the law ( of Christ which deceivers shout loud no law ) and we do no theft, adultery, stealing, lying ( remember if we say we know God and do not keep His word as Christ we lie and no truth is in us) and love works no ill to our neighbour..
Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
The people who write all sorts of articles, and input very small amounts of scripture to try to verify their descriptions, are wrong to trust in, Gods word is instruction, why do we need to be instructed how to ignore Gods instructions, and to instead hear a fresh set of ways, that lead us away from Gods ways, as the devil has us fol,low a signpost labelled Heaven, but is really the way to hell?
There is no respect of persons, so we should fear those words, how anyone who sins (practising or non practising,habitual sinning or non habitual sinning) as all sin is the non doing of the law, sin is the transgression of the law ( when is there a get out clause that we did not mean to break it, so it means it is not broken ?)
Also the evidence of belief is when the law is written in our heart, doing by nature ( remember the deceiver is without natural affection) the things contained in the law ( all the law is fulfilled in one to love your neighbour not hate them ) by the conscience given to us..
Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
The Godless heresy of sinless perfection -- so dd you hear about the magician that only performed illusions with chocolate? He always had a few Twix up his sleeves
Posted : 5 Mar, 2021 12:56 PM
So what did we learn here in this wishy washy misleading thread of rsvp ULTIMATE false teaching? Also we learned that according to moondim its ok to keep on sinning as long as your 'good' at it and not 'practicing' it! LOL! This time the ultimate teacher of OXYMORON theology in CULT speech!
So lets look at rsvp distraction better known as his 'Twix up his sleeves' in deception and hiding of proper wording! You see rsvp likes to use deceptive labels like 'Godless heresy of sinless perfection' self doctrine (he borrowed from his dad littledavid! ) but when you actually read your Bible, rsvp would actually be calling it - Godless heresy of Righteousness by FAITH, so do you see the problem with rsvp label doctrine of wording now? rsvp would like us NOT to know that we can live each and everyday a RIGHTEOUS LIFE BY FAITH, that is by His POWER ABOVE US, to do so, to turn away from ALL SIN this side of heaven! And this MUST take place in order to be FOUND resurrection day of one of two ways - he/she that is filthy still, let him/her be filthy still and he/she that is righteous still, let him/her be righteous still!
rsvp says it well in his own words sometimes, when actually understanding, then by quoting SOME parts to Scripture but then claims it has STRANGE contradictions in teaching REAL Christians will be FOREVER continual sinners???
rsvp writes - 'Jesus came to save us from sin. He died for our sins on the cross and he sent his Holy Spirit (note that he properly calls it 'his Holy Spirit' NOT another 'god' person! ) to empower his people to overcome sin and to live obedient, righteous lives in the present (Titus 2:11-14). Christians should have the highest aspirations for living holy lives and rejecting all sin.'
AMEN to what he posted above BUTTTTTTTT then he claims (by his misleading word - 'however' ?) that the Bible is speaking to ONLY Christians in 1 John 1:8???
rsvp writes - 'However, the Bible also says that ‘If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us’ (1 John 1:8).
So THEN because of his loss in trying to convince his readers that there are CONTRADICTIONS in the Bible (when there is NOT!), he uses the old Spurgeon hoax and distraction (another steady diet of 'Twix up his sleeves'!) to make his SELF (not CONTEXT Biblical) claim that REAL Christians will always sin???
BUTTTTT then he switches gears and exposes where his GOSPEL problem is in understanding the difference between initial salvation (while we are yet sinners) to that of continual salvation (when we are then born again and produce good works!) in his ongoing 'spiritual complacency' compared to Biblical Spiritual GUIDING in discernment to living a sinless life!
Then rsvp has another truthful revelation! Quote - 'We’ve forgotten that sin is ugly and grotesque; the complete opposite to righteousness. We’ve forgotten that God’s will for our lives is that we be holy (1 Thessalonians 4:3).' Because rsvp acknowledges that we can be 'holy' (sanctified) by NOT committing 'fornication' in the here and now according to the verse example he posted! AMEN!
Then he goes back AGAIN to the sinful nature teaching - 'We’ve forgotten that what Christians look forward to above all else is Jesus returning to take away our sin completely.' Problem is rsvp gave no Scripture that says at Yah'shua return for His SAINTS, it will be AT THAT MOMENT that He will 'take away our sin completely' because the Bible says He is coming for those who are - he/she that is righteous still, let him/her be righteous still! He ONLY comes to remove temptation which of course is NOT sinning, NOT to take away sinning because every SAINT will of already made that decision BY POWER FROM HEAVEN to do so!!
Then the NEW NATURE speaks from rsvp - "We’ve forgotten that anyone who truly desires that day to come >>>will be obsessed with living a holy life now<<< (1 John 3:2-3)." AMEN!
Sadly though rsvp closes with a sad ending for Christians by teasing them with CORRECT doctrine FIRST, at times, that they should TRULY thirst and hunger for TRUE Righteousness by FAITH but then JERKS the rug out from under them when he says its impossible to do so with his manmade 'church' FALSE DOCTRINE that says - 'We recognize that we will inevitably fall short.' according to parroting rsvp! But who is the 'we' in his belief of false doctrine, does he have a frog in his pocket that goes WEE WEE when it hops???
The Godless heresy of sinless perfection -- so dd you hear about the magician that only performed illusions with chocolate? He always had a few Twix up his sleeves
Posted : 6 Mar, 2021 12:53 AM
We do know that sinning is in our words too, right ?
The words we speak defile us, not make us holy or righteous.
Matthew 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
false witness comes out of the mouth, our theft, why do you think it is prohibited from taking from the words of God, by ADDING OUR OWN WORDS, AND NOW WE ARE TESTIFIED, THIS IS HOW WE BEAR FALSE WITNESS AND STEAL FROM THE TESTIMONY OF CHRIST, crucifying Him afresh is our murder and blasphemy, and last of all the fornication is with the god of this world..
Matthew 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
Revelation 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.
Now Revelations becomes a little clearer, how all commit fornication by not controlling their tongue, and by disobeying God by speaking anything other than the oracles (WORD) of God to glorify God through Christ..
1 Peter 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
The Godless heresy of sinless perfection -- so dd you hear about the magician that only performed illusions with chocolate? He always had a few Twix up his sleeves
Posted : 6 Mar, 2021 01:14 AM
Whether we will actually see it or care, now I know the mystery of babylon the great , as this forum is the example fulfilled.
The kings of the earth and all the earth are drunken with the fornication of the whoore, as they fornicate through the blasphemies of the unclean spirits blaspheming the Lord God, that evil spirit inside all people on earth right now, especially the false teachers who never show control for their tongue, and never have understanding, compassion nor acknowledge the testimonies of Christ when they have been revealed here.
That is the defiling of their heart by their mouth, that is the fornication from their heart, as the wrong heart and wrong words were revealed from them, and they will speak on until as we see o the devil, fire in a moment....
Revelation 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Revelation 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Revelation 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whoore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
The thousand years are a day to the Lord, and that day is the day of judgement and also the day of salvation..
Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
The Godless heresy of sinless perfection -- so dd you hear about the magician that only performed illusions with chocolate? He always had a few Twix up his sleeves
Posted : 10 Mar, 2021 06:15 PM
Adam says: “ Whether we will actually see it or care, now I know the mystery of babylon the great , as this forum is the example fulfilled.” end quote
Adam you shouldn’t talk about you and Flat Teddy’s posts like that
The Godless heresy of sinless perfection -- so dd you hear about the magician that only performed illusions with chocolate? He always had a few Twix up his sleeves
Posted : 10 Mar, 2021 06:16 PM
Adam says: “ Whether we will actually see it or care, now I know the mystery of babylon the great , as this forum is the example fulfilled.” end quote
Adam you shouldn’t talk about you and Flat Teddy’s posts like that
Its real simple, if your sinning, YOUR PRACTICING IT! 
Good grief you sound STUPID! 
Then you have the GALL to say its about 'obedient to God's Word' its ok to sin as long as your not PRACTICING IT??? 
Your some kind of new kind of OXYMORON in CULT speech??? 
Also we learned that according to moondim its ok to keep on sinning as long as your 'good' at it and not 'practicing' it! 
You see rsvp likes to use deceptive labels like 'Godless heresy of sinless perfection' self doctrine (he borrowed from his dad littledavid! 
) but when you actually read your Bible, rsvp would actually be calling it - Godless heresy of Righteousness by FAITH, so do you see the problem with rsvp label doctrine of wording now? 
rsvp would like us NOT to know that we can live each and everyday a RIGHTEOUS LIFE BY FAITH, that is by His POWER ABOVE US, to do so, to turn away from ALL SIN this side of heaven! 
And this MUST take place in order to be FOUND resurrection day of one of two ways - he/she that is filthy still, let him/her be filthy still and he/she that is righteous still, let him/her be righteous still! 
) to empower his people to overcome sin and to live obedient, righteous lives in the present (Titus 2:11-14). Christians should have the highest aspirations for living holy lives and rejecting all sin.' 
compared to Biblical Spiritual GUIDING in discernment to living a sinless life! 
though rsvp closes with a sad 
that says - 'We recognize that we will inevitably fall short.' according to parroting rsvp! 
