Author	Thread: Gifts and offerings
Admin	Gifts and offerings Posted : 15 Nov, 2020 04:34 AM I Corinthians 16:1-3 And concerning the collection for the saints Interesting isn't it? A collection being taken for the saints, plural, not the leaders(whatever you wish to call them) As I appointed the assemblies of the galatian region, you do it the same way. Verse 2: on the first day of the week let each one set aside with him/her self, storing up whatever he/she is prospered, so that whenever I come, collections might not be made then. Each believer, as they are prospered-that's a personal decision based on each person's conscience, not a certain amount or percentage as under the law of moses- Verse 3: and whenever I arrive, those whom you approve, through letters, I will send those approved ones to carry your gift to Jerusalem. Now we see who the collection is being made for, the believers in Jerusalem. No set amount, just as each believer considers to have been profited. And it's to be done the first day of the week. This subject of the gift for Jerusalem believers is dealt with in great detail in ii Corinthians chapters 8 and 9. Too often these passages are latched onto by preachers who want the saints to give to the "local church." As Quiznos has pointed out many times, verses are taken out of context. I was raised in a "church" that taught "storehouse"(see Malachi) and "faith promise"(ii Cor. 8/9) giving. As I have said elsewhere on here, God wants believers to give to other believers(Ephesians 4:28). But there is never an indication of salary or tithing. Those who teach and lead in the assembly (acts 20:33-35) are to set the example for other believers by working. There was no professional clergy in the New testament. Post Reply
Teddyhug^ View Profile History	Gifts and offerings Posted : 15 Nov, 2020 11:22 AM Oh my, Quiz and Moon get owned again by ADAM! By example Quiz keeps an avatar of his idol jeep he does not own, yet proudly displays it as a witness to what we should show as Christians! Keep in mind that Quiz has never claimed to be a Christian and therefore is only subjected to his own laws. It all makes sense now! Like the title to this thread, its the 'inspired' Quizzies idol gift to us when ever he posts! Post Reply
ADAM7777 View Profile History	Gifts and offerings Posted : 15 Nov, 2020 11:40 AM Teddyhugs, I wonder if its time for you, as it is time for me, to forget how people want to be, choosing their own way, and thinking if a person is a bad example of Christ, then all must be failing examples. Gods examples in scripture are for all the world, anyone out of scripture is not any example or testimony. I did believe in forsaking all, and that is how I began as a Christian, but I know I like everyone else will be judged on judgement day, and whatever way it will be, it has to be right. The Apostles have no verses showing them hurting anyone in anything, but likewise the devils many followers have nothing good to say or show in anything at all. There's is a wide easy path, who would not choose it, when God has not chosen/called you to know His suffering narrow one ? This is why the testimony cant be shared, it's nothing to do with me, I cant open eyes. Maybe you might think about doing what the strife makers requested, to show your topics and beliefs, if I am around I will support. It takes a lot to forsake our life, I did it when I did not want the life anyway, so it was easy. Everybody knows their own life and situations, and has to think what gift God gives to us of a chance of life and no more suffering, or pain, for anyone, and how much that gift is worth to them and how much love they can feel to believe in, the suffering of Christ for us to not make Him be crucified any more, and to help Him in His sufferings instead. Make the move if you can, show the strife makers, you believe in inheriting a blessing. Post Reply
View Profile History	Gifts and offerings Posted : 15 Nov, 2020 12:05 PM Addressing I Corinthians 9 specifically, it has nothing to do with pastors/elders/overseers in the local body of believers. Paul is dealing with himself as the traveling missionary, which is a translation of the word apostle. It is unfortunate for Christianity that the Greek word "apostolos" was not translated. The King James version did translate it twice as "messenger."(Phil. 2:25, 2 Cor. 8:25) that's an improvement but every occurrence should be translated, not given an English pronunciation of the Greek letters. Even though Paul says he has a right to be supported, he goes on to say he did not use that right. Why? He did not wish to put an obstacle in the way of the gospel(1 Cor. 9:12, see also 2 thess. 3:7-9). He said we did not eat anyone's food without paying for it, we worked night and day to give you an example. Even though he was a traveling missionary and God had told him those who preach the gospel should live of the gospel, it was a far better thing that he did by not receiving support while he was serving among the people. after he left he would receive support. Read Philippians chapter 4. Post Reply
Moonlight7 View Profile History	Gifts and offerings Posted : 15 Nov, 2020 12:35 PM I've read Philippians 4 Yes I know it was Paul speaking in Corinthians. My point was it's not against God to give. Scripture doesn't teach Against giving. Those who choose not to is a Choice. Just don't run down All Pastors . Post Reply
Moonlight7 View Profile History	Gifts and offerings Posted : 15 Nov, 2020 12:38 PM Teddy you and Adam couldn't "owned "anyone! That's a Worldly thing anyway. Then you don't have any Wisdom do maybe you are Worldly. Huge Emoji Post Reply
Moonlight7 View Profile History	Gifts and offerings Posted : 15 Nov, 2020 12:39 PM "So" maybe Post Reply
Moonlight7 View Profile History	Gifts and offerings Posted : 15 Nov, 2020 12:42 PM False teachers need deliverance. Emoji and his side step Post Reply
View Profile History	Gifts and offerings Posted : 15 Nov, 2020 01:21 PM I never taught against giving. I do teach the New testament doctrine of giving. I teach what the new testament says about the synonyms "pastor/elder/overseers" that they refer to the same persons. They just refer to three different functions. Consequently, by teaching what the new testament plainly says about those functions, I openly admit I teach against those who err on this teaching. They would say "one pastor" who is in authority over a boards of elders. They proclaim that they(the pastor) have a right to a salary. Oftentimes they use the old testament pattern of the priests who received a tithe. They preach tithing. Some use malachi, taking it out of context to say the storehouse is the church. By preaching a one person ministry, they ignore 1 Corinthians 14:26. I had a friend who has since passed away. His brother-in-law was a traditional pastor. The brother-in-law would often complain he couldn't get the members of the congregation to do anything. If you don't tell people what the body of Christ is, and tell them who we are in Christ, and tell them that every member has a function, and set the example for them to follow(note my previous post where Paul said he set an example by working and paying for what he needed), then the people in the pew will be just that, people in the pew. Post Reply
Quiznos View Profile History	Gifts and offerings Posted : 15 Nov, 2020 01:44 PM Abounding, glad you mentioned about Elders ( plural ), shepherds ( plural ), overseers ( plural ) as FUNCTIONS, not paid lifetime positions as in a business. The people should not be coerced into giving, nor should the be manipulated, shamed, or enticed into giving. Giving should not be a concern for believers, giving is not just money, any believer in Messiah can give of their time to help others. Post Reply
Moonlight7 View Profile History	Gifts and offerings Posted : 16 Nov, 2020 05:06 AM Sometimes giving means money too. Everything that is a Blessing comes from God almighty. Some men are just tight/ stingy. Remember, God knows what's going on with You! Post Reply

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