Having been in many churchs in my life, and heard teachings on who they think Yeshua (Jesus) is, not once has this chapter been taken into account WHY?
After all it is in this chapter, that we find Yeshua, and HaShem, (God) are one and the same. Should we true follows not seek to understand the one we say we follow? Is not a part of truly understanding, and loving the one we follow knowing who they are?
I have heard the Father Son and Holy Spirit teaching many times. Yet when asked, "Is not the Spirit of HaShem HaShem?" the answers never seem to fit.
I will leave you something to think on before anyone post a reply.
If we teach that every word in the Bible is true, yet wish to hold that HaShem and Yeshua are not the same, how can we say that John chapter 1 holds truth?
Can a person be 2 people at once? Yes. I am a son, and a father. Looking at this way one can show that the son, and the father are with one another, and yet I can be the son my mom loves, while not being the father my kids sometimes like. I can also be the father my kids don't like, when I lay down the law, and still be one they do like when we go do something fun.
Your argument isn't with me my friend, it is with how we as man attempt to recessional our understand with the plain text of the Word.
Now as to your question. How can they be the same when they are not spelled the same. In some teachings HaShem has 72 names, does that mean there are 72 gods? Not all, every name holds the attribute of HaShem being talked of.
Just 2 examples.
El Shadai tells us we are speaking of Him as all sustaining.
Elohim brings to mind Ruler or Judge.
Every name we or title we use to show who we are talking of is nothing more than just that. None of them can encompass who he truly is, or what He is truly able to do.
The word HaShem simply means The Name. It is used to maintan repect form Him, and remove confusion. If I was to speak of Him in the roll of Judge, and used El Shadai it would bring confusion into the topic.
Yeshua means God is salvation. The idea that HaShem walked with us shouldn't be a concept that is unthinkable. After all he can do anything, be anything, and it is through His grace that we are granted salvation is it not?
When we look in the OT we find that His spirit filled the prophets, never that it was any other spirit.
EJ says: Can a person be 2 people at once? Yes. I am a son, and a father. Looking at this way one can show that the son, and the father are with one another, and yet I can be the son my mom loves, while not being the father my kids sometimes like. I can also be the father my kids don't like, when I lay down the law, and still be one they do like when we go do something fun.
DAVID: Quite false. You are not 2 people, 2 personalities perhaps but not to people. You are 1 person who is a father to some people and a son to others but your not 2 people. You're expressing anti-Tinitarian anti-logic that doesn’t make sense
EJ says: Your argument isn't with me my friend, it is with how we as man attempt to recessional our understand with the plain text of the Word.
DAVID: Wrong again. My argument is with you, my friend. The Word of God is consistent within itself. In all due respect your reasoning is inconsistent within your own posts as you keep illustrating the more you write.
EJ says: Now as to your question. How can they be the same when they are not spelled the same. In some teachings HaShem has 72 names, does that mean there are 72 gods? Not all, every name holds the attribute of HaShem being talked of.
Just 2 examples.
El Shadai tells us we are speaking of Him as all sustaining.
Elohim brings to mind Ruler or Judge.
Every name we or title we use to show who we are talking of is nothing more than just that. None of them can encompass who he truly is, or what He is truly able to do.
The word HaShem simply means The Name. It is used to maintan repect form Him, and remove confusion. If I was to speak of Him in the roll of Judge, and used El Shadai it would bring confusion into the topic.
Yeshua means God is salvation. The idea that HaShem walked with us shouldn't be a concept that is unthinkable. After all he can do anything, be anything, and it is through His grace that we are granted salvation is it not?
When we look in the OT we find that His spirit filled the prophets, never that it was any other spirit.
DAVID: I already discussed your points here but you missed it in my preceding post. This might explain your rush to swallow anti-trinitarian false doctrine. I would encourage you to slow down and read more comprehensively making sure you fully understand all biblical terminology used.
So you see my point. If I am called by 2 names, I am still just one person. The same holds true for HaShem. He has 72 names in the Jewish teachings, yet remains ONE. Just as you understand that me being a son, and a father shows 2 attributes of the same person.
Being as you understand the Word is consistent, and that no 2 parts can stand in conflict, please explain, How can one chapter say they are one and the same, and be true, when another passage tells us they are not, and still be true.
You see you wish say you'r argument is with me, yet you place one passage at odds with another.
When it comes to Biblical theology, we must not confuse it with denomination theology. Yeshua tells in His own words the following.
Jhn 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Jhn 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Also John tells us
1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
So if the Word is to be consistent in all that it tells us, please reconcile your teaching with the passages given.
Moonlight, I find it of the up most importance to know just who or what one worships. If one doesn't know the true identity of the one call on, how can they call out in truth? It is not knowing the true identity that has so many to follow the idea the HaShem, Buddha, Allah, and all others are the same god. That however simply is not true. I in no way am trying to disprove anything here, nor to diminish what you are saying. However, as it is clear that you understand this, one must know who they bow down to and follow. Would you agree with that assessment?
You don't find out what is true by just accepting it. You find out by questioning it. If it is the Truth, it does not need to be afraid of question. It will hold up.
First, you write on 5 Oct, 2020 11:55 AM, QUOTE: “Can a person be 2 people at once? Yes.” END QUOTE
Then you write on 6 Oct, 2020 08:20 AM, QUOTE: If I am called by 2 names, I am still just one person. END QUOTE
EJ, you need to settle what you believe in your mind first before you try convincing someone else about something you don’t understood.
Also. You need to reread my posts. This is now the second time I’ve suggested that to you.
Have you read all my posts even once all the way through? They’re not lengthy posts. Obviously you’re not following my line of reasoning. I’m not arguing against a person having more that one name. But I tried to bring to your attention the 2 names, HaShem and Yeshua you claim are “the same” are not same and they do not refer to exactly one person in the context you cited.
You claim they are exactly the same and refer to the same person. So the burden of proof lies with you to make your case against some pretty stiff odds.
Who was Messiah praying to in John 17, who was talking to who in Matthew 3 verses 16 - 17
16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened,d and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him.
17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased!”
I have read your post, You first try to build your case with the uss of just one word, "with" an indication that you A) wish to remove the rest to avoid the passage that tells us THE WORD WAS GOD. Or B) simply wish to muddy the water as much as you can to avoid seeing what is right before you.
Next you move to try and discredit me with unfounded and faults allegations of being incoherent. This leads to the think 2 things. A) you simply can't understand what you read, or B) you can't uphold what you say, so you place the blame on others. The first I can understand.
The second I have had others do the same thing in other ways. Their case isn't holding up, so rather just say they may be wrong, they seek out any little thing they can find to change the topic. Some point out all the little things you get wrong like missing a comma, a misspelled word, or any typo they can find. I find it sad that when one is wrong, or doesn't understand a topic, that they turn to such tactics.
Trust me, when I am wrong I am willing to say so. Also if I am unable to hold my own without that kind of action, I bow out.
perhaps but not to people. You are 1 person who is a father to some people and a son to others but your not 2 people. You're expressing anti-Tinitarian anti-logic that doesn’t make sense