I don't believe they were "fallen angels" procreating. If that were the case, then why aren't we seeing them doing this today and half-man/half fallen angel walking around?
The scriptures that detail this talk about "men."
Additionally, there were people of tall stature living who were ordinary men, such as the Philistines.
There were times in the Bible when God told people not to mix with certain cultures. Part of it was due to pagan beliefs of those cultures, and God knew men could be beguiled into worshiping false gods if they took wives. For example, this happened to King Solomon.
1 Kings 11:1-6 But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites; Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love. And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart. For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father. For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites. And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.
We also see God forbidding this in Deuteronomy.
Deut 7:1 When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;
"why aren't we seeing them doing this today and half-man/half fallen angel walking around?"
Coming to the conclusion:
"I don't believe they were "fallen angels" procreating."
Because......
Jude 1:6 answers differently:
"And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—"
And....
Peter 2:4
"For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;"
The confusion here is caused by conflating the Nephilim with the "Sons of God".
The Sons of God who fell were locked up.
However.....
Since their offspring with humans were hybrid mortal/immortal, even though they died, their spirits still walk among us as "demons" looking for bodies to inhabit. This comes squarely from the Book of Enoch.
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Where was their "first estate." Was it not the heavenly realm? Says nothing about having babies with women. If they were punished for not keeping their "first estate", then how are they on earth running around and procreating?
Also, you have a nice gap after the fall if you try to make that argument. So where were the "fallen angels" between the time of Satan's fall and sometime, apparently briefly" before Noah?
You are Not arguing against me, but against the context of the Biblical authors who read Enoch, Jubilees, Baruch and others.
However to address your questions:
#1) "Where was their "first estate." Was it not the heavenly realm?"
> although we as humans know next to nothing about spiritual realms and dimensions, we know they left
their first estate and came to earth. This is corroborated not only by the Bible, but almost every ancient religion, ledgend and Text has some form of this incident.
In Jewish thought it was not the fall of man that brought sin into the world, but the sin of the Angels.<
#2) Says nothing about having babies with women. If they were punished for not keeping their "first estate", then how are they on earth running around and procreating?
> Genesis 6 tells us they had babies with the daughters of men.
You are assuming they were immediately punished the minute they stepped outside their first estate. However if you read the same literature the authors of the New Testament read. Then you would know they were punished for taking up a new estate on earth and corrupting it & mankind. <
#3) Also, you have a nice gap after the fall if you try to make that argument. So where were the "fallen angels" between the time of Satan's fall and sometime, apparently briefly" before Noah?
> what gap? The Watchers left their first estate, took up residence on earth, corrupted it and were judged in the flood. While Satan may have played a part in this, he wasn't one of the ones who came down and took the daughters of men for wives. When Satan fell, where he fell to, exactly how he fell, or how many times he will fall is open to much debate. Isaiah speaks of it, Ezekiel speaks of it, then Jesus, then Revelation. Are they all the same incident or different incidents? Who knows. But obviously Satan wasn't included with those who were locked up or he wouldn't be around <
TOTH, there is much more going on than a good GOD and a bad devil. Not that we need to concern ourselves with it. We are to concern ourselves with following the teachings of Jesus and the Holy Spirit God has put into us.
1, Came to earth? No, it says they were bound in "everlasting chains." It doesn't say they were given a pass to run around for awhile. It says they were punished.
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
2. And you are assuming they weren't punished right away. If these fallen angels were so devious as to deserve eternal chains in the near future, why would they be given a "grace period", especially if they would just go around procreating?
Additionally, what literature are you stating the authors of the NT read? Can you give names and confirm how you know for sure they read something? There are many one or two exceptions that are reasonable to assert, but still reading something and believing something can be two entirely different things. That's why we have "fiction" and "nonfiction." If we believe every literally religious work, we would be blaming Krakens and unicorns as well. Maybe even aliens.
3. Again, you're talking about something that isn't stated. When you read the accounts, you'll repeatedly see the word "men."
v1. And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, (talking about men)
v2. That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. (still talking about men. the term being used is literally "bath 'adam" for "the daughters of men")
v3. And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years (Still talking about "man")
v4. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. (This is where we get to the "nĕphiyl" when giants are mentioned, and later it's clarified who they are.)
Num 13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
There are the nĕphiyl. The Anakims were a tribe that lived in southern Palestine.
So answer me this, if the Anakims were a tribe of fallen angels and they were drown, then how are the still around in the book of Joshua? Weren't they supposed to be locked up in everlasting chains afterwards?
Joshua 11:21 And at that time came Joshua, and cut off the Anakims from the mountains, from Hebron, from Debir, from Anab, and from all the mountains of Judah, and from all the mountains of Israel: Joshua destroyed them utterly with their cities.
But wait, there's more. :)
The next verse in Joshua says something important:
Josh 11:22 There was none of the Anakims left in the land of the children of Israel: only in Gaza, in Gath, and in Ashdod, there remained.
Did you see that? Gath! And who is from Gath? "Giants" who are human. I'm sure you even know of a giant named "Goliath" or "Goliath of Gath."
1 Ch 20:8 These were born unto the giant in Gath; and they fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants.
Nephilim are human giants.
1 Ch 20:6 And yet again there was war at Gath, where was a man of great stature, whose fingers and toes were four and twenty, six on each hand, and six on each foot: and he also was the son of the giant.
If we go by what is written and convert it, Goliath was approximately 9ft 9in.
Sorry brother, I can't help you. Your mind is so made up that you purposely misread the Text. For example: You keep saying; it says "men", it says "men" when in reality the Text says it was the "daughters" of men who the "sons of God" came to. It was their offspring who were the Nephilim or giants.
You also seem to not see the phrase in Genesis 6:4
"4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them."
"AND ALSO AFTERWARD"
The other thing is, you apparently refuse to acquaint yourself with Enochian literature therefore you have no idea when Biblical authors such as Jude and Peter are referencing it.
Ignorance is bliss. It doesn't matter what you believe on this anyway. Therefore believe what you want.
Don't worry, be happy!
(iirc, there is a balanced article which you ought to read if this kind of thing is important to you. I'll post it if I can find it)
