Thread: People! You have a serious problem. (and it's not the Trinity).
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People! You have a serious problem. (and it's not the Trinity).
Posted : 30 Dec, 2019 01:56 PM
The doctrine of the "Trinity" is not that important to me. I can take it or leave it. It doesn't matter. However you people are willing to stone me or crucify me even though I'm a follower of Jesus, just because I don't buy into your doctrine. That isn't the kind of Christianity Jesus taught-----------------------------------------------------------------
I notice the GLBT community has the same attitude. It's not enough to live and let live. They demand you to believe as them. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I notice Jesus had an Oral Torah that differed from the Pharisees. They demanded Jesus believe as them. When he didn't, they had him killed.---------------------------------------------------- The number one leading persecutor of Christianity has been Christianity. More Christians have died at the hands of other Christians than any other group!------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ However, I will entertain your answers to this question:----------------------------- **Where does Jesus, or the entire New Testament for that matter give a peshat teaching (the intended, explicit meaning) that one MUST believe in the Trinity to be saved?**------------------- I'm listening
People! You have a serious problem. (and it's not the Trinity).
Posted : 31 Dec, 2019 01:06 AM
KJV”0”, about those “red flags” of yours, they came outa that Babylonian mix.
How many time have I told you to keep your flags in order!!
Just like the Pinocchio prophet, Chuckk occasionally drifts into orthodoxy and says something right.
If I understand him correctly, Chuckk is right to assert that the accurate interpretation of any historical document is to be determined only by referencing its historical, grammatical and linguistic contexts.
Fortunately, most modern translations of scripture, except for the Jehovah’s Witness witless NWT, apply that method.
Now, for KJV”0” ‘s uncritical and willing credulity with the KJVonlism cult.
KJV”0” follows pretty much lockstep with KJVonlism’s historical rewrites.
After all, if the Mormon cult sees fit to rewrite history in order to justify their cult ambitions, why can’t other cults like KJVonlism do the same??
Fair enough
So that’s what KJVonlism does.
But one bad turn deserves another, so while you’re at it, may as well introduce the Babylonian “trinity” in order to obfuscate the Holy Spirt inspired version and history of the trinity
People! You have a serious problem. (and it's not the Trinity).
Posted : 31 Dec, 2019 04:00 AM
Little David ???
You write:
"Chuckk, you, prophetic and KJV”0” have more in common than you realize.
All 3 of you believe in your own subjective historical rewrites."
---------------------------------
I have no idea how you could come to such a conclusion? Actually, it is you who has the commonality of systematically derived religious doctrines with them.
Whereas I go to the original languages reading them in their proper historically and culturally correct context and LEAVING the AMBIGUITIES inherent within them.
While you, prophetic and KJV, must fill in those inherent ambiguities each with their peculiar brand of systematically derived doctrine.
You pride yourself in having the only correct system to understand Scripture. This was the same mistake the Pharisees made and the same mistake modern Orthodox Judaism makes. Reformation doctrine is nothing more than a type of "Christian Oral Torah".
People! You have a serious problem. (and it's not the Trinity).
Posted : 31 Dec, 2019 04:12 AM
David,
"Chuckk, you’ve made it clear many other biblical teaching “are not important to you” as well, not just the Trinity"
---------------------------------
Your systematically derived man made doctrines are little more than a curiosity to me. Whether the Bible actually teaches such things is completely dependent on interpretation. There is "biblical teaching" that I take to heart. It is what the Bible explicitly teaches.
I see you in violation to the explicit teaching of the Bible which says "do not add or subtract". You add your own man derived doctrines to the biblically explicitly taught tenets of salvation and right relationship with God.
This is in clear violation of the whole of Scripture!
The ONLY legitimate "Oral Torah" of Scripture are the explicit teachings of Y'shua the Messiah.
People! You have a serious problem. (and it's not the Trinity).
Posted : 31 Dec, 2019 04:39 AM
Justhangingaround writes:
"f you don't believe in the Father, Son, Holy Spirit Trinity, then you all have a problem.
---------------------------------------
Agreed, but there is another problem no one talks about: Going beyond the explicit teachings of Jesus to "define" the Son and the Spirit.
Here is what Jesus EXPLICITLY taught:
Matt 11:27 & Luke 10:20
"no one knows who the Son is except the Father"
John 3:8
"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
For Christians nowadays it is not a matter of not believing, in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but believing things not explicitly taught by Jesus and then teaching others their salvation is dependent on believing these man derived doctrines.
People! You have a serious problem. (and it's not the Trinity).
Posted : 31 Dec, 2019 06:01 AM
***THE ONLY THING THAT COUNTS IS **FAITH** EXPRESSING ITSELF THROUGH LOVE**!!{Galatians 5:6}
Acts 26:17,18: Jesus said to Paul, "I am sending you to the Gentiles to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are **SANCTIFIED BY FAITH**!"
Romans 1:17: For in the Gospel the righteousness of God is revealed--a righteousness that is **BY FAITH FROM FIRST TO LAST**!!
Romans 3:23-25: For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of His blood--to be received **BY FAITH**!!
Romans 3:27,28: Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? **NO**, because of the law that **REQUIRES FAITH**! For we maintain that a person is **JUSTIFIED BY FAITH** apart from the works of the law!!
Romans 5:1,2: Therefore, since we have been **JUSTIFIED THOUGH FAITH**, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access **BY FAITH** into this grace in which we now stand!!
Romans 10:5-9: Moses writes about the righteousness that is by the law: "The person who does these things will live by them." {Lev 18:5} But the righteousness that comes **BY FAITH** says...The word is near you: it is in your mouth and in your heart, that is, the message concerning **FAITH** that we proclaim: IF you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your **FAITH** and are saved!!
Romans 12:3: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the **FAITH** God has distributed to each of you!!
Romans 14:23: Everything that does not come **FROM FAITH** is sin!!
2 Corinthians 1:24: We work with you for your joy, because it is **BY FAITH** you stand firm!!
2 Corinthians 5:6-10: We are always confident and know that as long as we are at home with the body we are away from the Lord. For we live **BY FAITH**, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. So we make it our goal to please Him... For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad!!
Galatians 2:16: We know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but **BY FAITH** in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our **FAITH** in Christ Jesus that we may be **JUSTIFIED BY FAITH** in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law **NO ONE WILL BE JUSTIFIED**!!
Galatians 3:23-26: Before the coming of this **FAITH**, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the **FAITH** that was to come would be revealed. So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be **JUSTIFIED BY FAITH**. Now that this **FAITH** has come we are **NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVION OF THE LAW**. So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God **THROUGH FAITH**!!
Galatians 5:5,6: For through the Spirit we eagerly await **BY FAITH** the righteousness for which we hope. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is **FAITH** expressing itself through **LOVE**!!
Ephesians 2:8-10: For it is by grace you have been saved, **THROUGH FAITH**--and this is not from yourselves, it is the **GIFT** of God, not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are **GOD'S HANDIWORK**, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do!!
Ephesians 3:16,17: I pray that out of His glorious riches He may strengthen you with power through His Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts **THROUGH FAITH**!!
I Thessalonians 1:3: We remember before our God and Father you work produced **BY FAITH**!!
2 Thessalonians 1:3,4: We ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters, and rightly so, because your **FAITH** is growing **MORE AND MORE**....Therefore, among God's churches we boast about your perseverance and **FAITH** in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring!!
2 Thessalonians 1:11: We constantly pray for you, that our God may make you worthy of His calling, and that by His power He may bring to fruition your every desire for goodness and your every deed **PROMPTED BY FAITH**!!
I Timothy 1:3,4: Command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer... Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God's work--which is **BY FAITH**!!
2 Timothy 3:14,15: Continue in what you have learned and become convinced of...and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation **THROUGH FAITH** in Christ Jesus!!
Hebrews 11:1,3,6: So **FAITH** is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see...**BY FAITH** we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, in that what is seen was not made out of what was visible... Without **FAITH** it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He **REWARDS** those who earnestly seek Him!!
Matthew 16:27: Jesus says, “The Son of Man is going to come in His Father's glory with His angels and **THEN** He will **REWARD** each person according to what he has done!”
Hebrews 12:1,2: Let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Pioneer and Perfecter of our **FAITH**!!
People! You have a serious problem. (and it's not the Trinity).
Posted : 31 Dec, 2019 06:41 AM
**THE ONLY THING THAT COUNTS IS FAITH EXPRESSING ITSELF THROUGH ***LOVE***!!{Galatians 5:6}
**THE FATHER LOVES HIS FAITHUL SAINTS JUST AS MUCH AS HE LOVES JESUS**
John 17:23: Jesus says to His Father, "You sent Me and have **LOVED THEM** even as you **LOVED** Me!!"
**JESUS LOVES HIS FAITHFUL SAINTS **JUST AS MUCH** AS THE FATHER LOVES HIM**!!
John 15:9,10" Jesus says, "As the Father **LOVED** Me, so I have **LOVED** you!! Now remain in My **LOVE . **IF** you obey My commands, you will remain in My **LOVE**, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in His **LOVE** !"
John 14:21,23: Jesus says, "Whoever has My commands and obeys them, he is the one who **LOVES** Me! He who loves Me will be **LOVED** by My Father, and I will **LOVE** him....If anyone **LOVES** Me, he will obey My teaching. My Father will **LOVE** him, and we will come to him and make Our home with him!!"
I John 3:18: Dear children, let us not **LOVE** with words or tongue but with actions and in truth!
WHAT'S **LOVE** GOT TO DO WITH IT??
I Peter 1:22: "Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere **LOVE** for your brothers, **LOVE** one another deeply, from the heart. For you have been born again... through the living and enduring Word of God!
I Peter 4:8: **ABOVE ALL**, **LOVE** each other **DEEPLY**, because **LOVE** covers over a multitude of sins!
I Corinthians 13:2,4-8: If I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not **LOVE** I am nothing...**LOVE** is patient, **LOVE** is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. **LOVE** does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. **LOVE** never fails!!"
John 13:34: Jesus says, "A NEW command I give you: **LOVE* one another As I have **LOVED** you, so you must **LOVE** one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples." John 15:12,13: Jesus says, "My command is this: **LOVE** each other as I have **LOVED** you. Greater **LOVE** has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
I John 3:16: This how we know what **LOVE** is: Jesus Christ laid down His life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers!
Ephesians 5:1,2: Be **IMITATORS OF GOD**, therefore, as dearly loved children and live a life of **LOVE**, just as Christ **LOVED** us and gave Himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God!
Luke 6:27,28,35,36: Jesus says, "**LOVE** your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. **LOVE** your enemies, do good to them. and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your **REWARD** will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because He is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful!"
Matthew 28:19.20” Jesus commands, “Go and make disciples of all nations... teaching them to *OBEY EVERYTHING* I have commanded you!” {See I John 2:3-5}
EVERYTHING would also include all the other commands in God's inspired Word from Acts to Revelation as per 2 Timothy 3:16: 4:2: "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work...Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction."
If we really **LOVE** our brothers and sister in Christ we will lovingly teach them to obey all the approximately 400 commands of the NT with **LOVE** in the hope of countless eternal rewards when Jesus comes with great power with all His angels.
Revelation 22:112: Jesus says,"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with Me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done!?
Matthew 16:27: Jesus says, For the Son of Man is going to come in His Father's glory with His angels, and **THEN** He will **REWARD** each person according to what he has done."
Ephesians 4:15: "Speaking the Truth in **LOVE** , we will in all things grow up into Him who is the Head, that is, Christ! From Him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in **LOVE** , as each part does its work."
Ephesians 3:17-19: "I pray that you, being rooted and established in **LOVE** may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the **LOVE** of Christ, and to know this **LOVE** that surpasses knowledge--that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God!!"
I John 4:7-12: Dear friends, let us **LOVE** one another, for **LOVE** comes from God. Everyone who **LOVES** has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not **LOVE** does not know God, because God is **LOVE**. This is how God showed His **LOVE**among us: He sent His one and only Son into the world that we might live through Him. This is **LOVE**, not that we **LOVED** God, but that He **LOVED** us and sent His Son as the atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so **LOVED** us, we ought to **LOVE** one another. No one has ever seen God, but if we **LOVE** one another, God lives in us and His **LOVE** is made complete in us!
Romans 8:35,37-39: Who shall separate us from the **LOVE** of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?...We are more than conquerors through Him who **LOVED** us! For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the **LOVE** of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord!!
Titus 2:13,14: **WE** wait for the **BLESSED HOPE**--the glorious appearing of our **GREAT GOD** and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us to **REDEEM US** from all wickedness and to purify for Himself a people that are **HIS VEREY OWN**, eager to do what is good!!
Revelation 17:14: They will make war against the **LAMB**, but the **LAMB** will overcome them because He is **LORD** of lords and **KING** of kings and with Him will be His **CALLED** **CHOSEN** and **FAITHFUL** followers!! {Riding heavenly white horses right after the Marriage Feast of the **LAMB** as per Revelation 19:7-20}
People! You have a serious problem. (and it's not the Trinity).
Posted : 31 Dec, 2019 07:42 AM
Chuckles: God's Word is not **SPAM** and is greatly superior to your **SATANIC GARBAGE**!!
**THE ONLY THING THAT COUNTS IS FAITH EXPRESSING ITSELF THROUGH ***LOVE***!!{Galatians 5:6}
**THE FATHER LOVES HIS FAITHUL SAINTS JUST AS MUCH AS HE LOVES JESUS**
John 17:23: Jesus says to His Father, "You sent Me and have **LOVED THEM** even as you **LOVED** Me!!"
**JESUS LOVES HIS FAITHFUL SAINTS **JUST AS MUCH** AS THE FATHER LOVES HIM**!!
John 15:9,10" Jesus says, "As the Father **LOVED** Me, so I have **LOVED** you!! Now remain in My **LOVE . **IF** you obey My commands, you will remain in My **LOVE**, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in His **LOVE** !"
John 14:21,23: Jesus says, "Whoever has My commands and obeys them, he is the one who **LOVES** Me! He who loves Me will be **LOVED** by My Father, and I will **LOVE** him....If anyone **LOVES** Me, he will obey My teaching. My Father will **LOVE** him, and we will come to him and make Our home with him!!"
I John 3:18: Dear children, let us not **LOVE** with words or tongue but with actions and in truth!
WHAT'S **LOVE** GOT TO DO WITH IT??
I Peter 1:22: "Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere **LOVE** for your brothers, **LOVE** one another deeply, from the heart. For you have been born again... through the living and enduring Word of God!
I Peter 4:8: **ABOVE ALL**, **LOVE** each other **DEEPLY**, because **LOVE** covers over a multitude of sins!
I Corinthians 13:2,4-8: If I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not **LOVE** I am nothing...**LOVE** is patient, **LOVE** is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. **LOVE** does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. **LOVE** never fails!!"
John 13:34: Jesus says, "A NEW command I give you: **LOVE* one another As I have **LOVED** you, so you must **LOVE** one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples." John 15:12,13: Jesus says, "My command is this: **LOVE** each other as I have **LOVED** you. Greater **LOVE** has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
I John 3:16: This how we know what **LOVE** is: Jesus Christ laid down His life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers!
Ephesians 5:1,2: Be **IMITATORS OF GOD**, therefore, as dearly loved children and live a life of **LOVE**, just as Christ **LOVED** us and gave Himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God!
Luke 6:27,28,35,36: Jesus says, "**LOVE** your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. **LOVE** your enemies, do good to them. and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your **REWARD** will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because He is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful!"
Matthew 28:19.20” Jesus commands, “Go and make disciples of all nations... teaching them to *OBEY EVERYTHING* I have commanded you!” {See I John 2:3-5}
EVERYTHING would also include all the other commands in God's inspired Word from Acts to Revelation as per 2 Timothy 3:16: 4:2: "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work...Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction."
If we really **LOVE** our brothers and sister in Christ we will lovingly teach them to obey all the approximately 400 commands of the NT with **LOVE** in the hope of countless eternal rewards when Jesus comes with great power with all His angels.
Revelation 22:112: Jesus says,"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with Me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done!?
Matthew 16:27: Jesus says, For the Son of Man is going to come in His Father's glory with His angels, and **THEN** He will **REWARD** each person according to what he has done."
Ephesians 4:15: "Speaking the Truth in **LOVE** , we will in all things grow up into Him who is the Head, that is, Christ! From Him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in **LOVE** , as each part does its work."
Ephesians 3:17-19: "I pray that you, being rooted and established in **LOVE** may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the **LOVE** of Christ, and to know this **LOVE** that surpasses knowledge--that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God!!"
I John 4:7-12: Dear friends, let us **LOVE** one another, for **LOVE** comes from God. Everyone who **LOVES** has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not **LOVE** does not know God, because God is **LOVE**. This is how God showed His **LOVE**among us: He sent His one and only Son into the world that we might live through Him. This is **LOVE**, not that we **LOVED** God, but that He **LOVED** us and sent His Son as the atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so **LOVED** us, we ought to **LOVE** one another. No one has ever seen God, but if we **LOVE** one another, God lives in us and His **LOVE** is made complete in us!
Romans 8:35,37-39: Who shall separate us from the **LOVE** of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?...We are more than conquerors through Him who **LOVED** us! For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the **LOVE** of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord!!
Titus 2:13,14: **WE** wait for the **BLESSED HOPE**--the glorious appearing of our **GREAT GOD** and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us to **REDEEM US** from all wickedness and to purify for Himself a people that are **HIS VEREY OWN**, eager to do what is good!!
Revelation 17:14: They will make war against the **LAMB**, but the **LAMB** will overcome them because He is **LORD** of lords and **KING** of kings and with Him will be His **CALLED** **CHOSEN** and **FAITHFUL** followers!! {Riding heavenly white horses right after the Marriage Feast of the **LAMB** as per Revelation 19:7-20}
