Have you ever noticed the same people who pontificate endlessly over the RAPTURE are usually the same people NOT feeding the hungry and helping the poor, needy and sick? ............................................................
I'm fairly certain the amount people concern themselves with such matters is the same amount they ignore the simple teachings of Jesus..............................................................I suppose these are the same people who drive around in traffic with stuffed animals glued to their car getting in everyone's way. When they are not driving around harrasing traffic they go on forums using them as personal billboard advertising and harassing anyone who asks them to stop............................................................Wouldn't it be better to just do what Jesus asked? .............That is if you are really following Jesus?
No, Armageddon happens after the Millennial Reign. And to have a Millennial Reign, He would have to be here already.
Rev 20:6-9 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
**THERE ARE ONLY 2 RESURRECTIONS MENTIONED IN REVELATION 20:4-6** THE 1,000 YEAR FIRST RESURRECTION IN REVELATION 20:4-6 IS FOR THE 24 ELDERS ON THRONES AND MARTYRS ONLY**?? THE SECOND RESURRECTION IS FOR EVERY SAINT OF ALL AGES WHO ARE NOT A MARTYR OR ONE OF THE 24 ELDERS**!!
Jesus promised to 12 Apostles who followed Him {Including Paul?} that they would be given 12 THRONES and the authority to **JUDGE** in Matthew 19:28 & Luke 22:30. In Revelation 4:4 Before the beginning of the Great Tribulation John saw exactly 24 thrones surrounding God's Throne in Heaven. The other 12 thrones were most likely given to 12 prominent OT Elders such as Abraham, Joseph, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Moses, Elijah, Samuel, Joshua, Noah and Enoch. One of these 24 Elders speaks in Rev 7:13-17 and after the 7TH angel sounds the 7TH and Last Trumpet in Rev 11:15. ONLY the 24 Elders state on the Last Day in Rev 11:16-18: “The time has come for **JUDGING** the dead and for rewarding your saints.”
It is completely obvious that the 1,000 year reign mentioned in Revelation 20:4-6 is for **24 ELDERS** on Thrones and **MARTYRS ONLY** according to God's Word in:
Revelation 20:4,5b,6a: "I saw Thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to *JUDGE* {The 24 Elders} and I saw the souls of those who had been executed {Or beheaded} because of their testimony for Jesus {NT Martyrs} and because of the Word of God {OT Martyrs}. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands {Tribulation Martyrs}. THEY {THE 24 ELDERS & MARTYRS} came to life and reigned with Christ for 1,000 years... This is the **FIRST RESURRECTION**... Blessed and holy are those who have part in the **FIRST RESURRECTION**. Rev 20:5a: “The rest of the dead {Those saints who are not martyrs or the 24 Elders on Thrones} did not come to life **UNTIL** the 1,000 years were **ENDED**.”
Which, of course, would be the **SECOND RESURRECTION** at the 2nd Coming of Jesus. There are only TWO RESURRECTIONS for all saints mentioned in Rev 20:4-6: The **FIRST RESURRECTION** is for Martyrs and the 24 Elders **ONLY** and INCLUDES the Tribulation Martyrs. And therefore the **SECOND RESURRECTION** must come on the Last Day of the Great Tribulation and must include all saints {Both OT & NT} who are not martyrs or the 24 Elders on thrones.
God's word states that the Martyrs of the Great Tribulation will participate in the **FIRST RESURRECTION** while the pre-tribbers claim that the Rapture of the Church saints is the **FIRST RESURRECTION** **BEFORE** the Great Tribulation!!
I Corinthians 15:20-24: Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the Firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the**RESURRECTION** of the dead comes also through a Man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in turn: Christ the Firstfruits, then, when He comes, those who belong to Him. **THEN THE END** will come, when He hands over the Kingdom to God the Father!!
So when Jesus comes He will Resurrect those who belong to Him {Including all **CHURCH SAINTS**} church saints and on tis same day the End will come when Jesus hands over the Kingdom to God the Father. And so this day could not be 7 or 3 1/2 years before the End when Jesus hands over the Kingdom to God the Father in a pre-trib rapture. This passage also contradicts the belief that Jesus will be the head of His kingdom on earth for 1,000 years after His second coming.
**THIS ABSOLUTELY CONTRDICTS THE PRE-TRIB VIEW THAT THE **FIRST RESURRECTION** IS ONLY FOR CHURCH SAINTS JUST BEFORE THE GREAT TRIBULATION**!!
The Heavenly rewards for the faithful and courageous *MARTYRS* is one of the most important central themes in the book of Revelation. For they will reign with Jesus in Heaven during the 1,000 years before His 2nd Coming; and according to Revelation 7:14-17: They are **BEFORE THE THRONE OF GOD** and God will spread His tent over them. They will receive White Robes washed in the blood of the Lamb. Never again will they hunger or thirst and God Himself will wipe every tear from their eyes. Jesus will be their Shepherd and will lead them to springs of Living Water.
At the Beginning of the Great Tribulation we read in:
Revelation 6:9-11: When He {Jesus} opened the 5th seal, I saw under the Altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the Word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, Holy and True, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" Then each of them were given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer untill the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were to be killed just as they had been! {And so the Martyrs are **AWAKE** and **TALKING TO GOD** with **HEAVENLY BODIES** **BEFORE** the 2nd Coming of Jesus when those who are not Martyrs or the 24 Elders will be awakened and receive their new heavenly bodies!
Then just before the 7 trumpet plagues in Revelation 8 we read in:
Revelation 7:9,13-15: There before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing **BEFORE THE THRONE and before the **LAMB**. They were wearing white robes... Then of the {24} Elders asked me, "These in white robes--who are they and where did they come from?" I answered, "Sir, you know." And he said, "These are they who have come out of the **GREAT TRIBULATION** {**MARTYRS**Like Jesus} they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the **LAMB**! Therefore, "They are **BEFORE THE THRONE OF GOD** and **SERVE HIM** day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will shelter them with His presence!" {And so the Tribulation martyrs are also Awake before God's throne and **SERVE GOD** **BEFORE** the 2nd Coming of Jesus!!}
FOR EXAMPLE: Let us suppose that the that the 1260-day Great Tribulation begins July 7th, 2019; and would therefore end 1260 days later on December 18th, 2022. Then the continuous 1,000 year FIRST RESURRECTION for MARTYRS AND 24 ELDERS ONLY would take place during the 1,000 years from December 18th, AD 1022 to December 18th, 2022. The 24 Elders and all of the OT & NT saints martyred before December 18th, 1022 were awakened to reign with Jesus in Heaven and every Martyr martyred after December 18th, 1022 were and will be immediately awakened to reign with Jesus in the continuous 1,000 year FIRST RESURRECTION to be completed on December 18th, 2022 at the SECOND RESURRECTION when {According to Rev 20:5: "The rest of the dead come to life when the thousand years are ENDED!"
The **24 ELDERS** are mentioned 12 times in Revelation 4:4,10; 5:5,6,8,11,14; 7:11,13; 11:16; 14:3 and 19:4. The **MARTYRS** are mentioned over 20 times in Revelation 6:9-11; 7:9-17; 12:11; 14:1-5,13; 15:2-4; 16:6; 17:6; 18:24 an 19:2!! The **24 ELDERS** and the **MARTYRS** like Jesus are the **ONLY SAINTS** mentioned who are awake, before God's throne, talking to God and have their eternal heavenly bodies in Revelation. All the rest of the saints are asleep in Jesus until the **SECOND RESURRECTION** at the Second Coming of Jesus when they will be awakened and receive their new heavenly bodies. And their is absolutely no mention of all the **CHURCH SAINTS** that were supposedly raptured **BEFORE** the tribulation according to the pre-trib fairy tale!!
I Corinthians 15:50-52 I declare to you brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, . Listen I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep {Since the **24 ELDERS & **MARTYRS ARE AWAKE**} but we will all be changed --in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the Last {7TH} trumpet. For the {7TH & LAST} trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed!!
Those who believe in a future 1,000 Millennium after the Last Day of the Great tribulation wrongly believe that: "Since all the saints will receive new heavenly bodies and all the unsaved will be sent to hell as per Matthew 25:31-46, there would no one left to inhabit a future 1,000 year Millennium!!"
This seems to contradict John 6:40: Jesus says, “EVERYONE who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life and I will raise him up at the LAST DAY.” However, the LAST DAY RESURRECTION could last 1,000 years for in 2 Pet 3:8 we read: “With the Lord a DAY is like 1,000 years, and 1,000 years are like a DAY!!
Revelation 12:11: They triumphed over him {666} by the blood of the **LAMB** and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death!
Revelation 2:10: Jesus promised, "Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of **LIFE**!!"
NOW THE PREMILLENIEST BELIEVES THAT DURING A 1,000 YEAR REIGN OF CHRIST **AFTER** THE LAST DAY THE LORD JESUS WILL REIGN IN THE EZEKIEL TEMPLE MEENTIONED IN EZEKIEL CHAPTERS 40-48 WHERE THERE WILL BE ANIMAL SACRIFICES TO MAKE ATONEMENT FOR SINS**???
Ezekiel 45:21-23: In the first month on the 14th day you to observe the Passover, a festival lasting 7 days.. In that day **PRINCE** {Mentioned as leader 17 times} is to provide a bull as a **SIN OFFERING**, **FOR HIMSELF** and for **ALL THE PEOPLE** of the land. Every day during the 7 days of the festival he is to provide 7 bulls and 7 rams without defect as a burnt offering to the Lord and a male goat for a **SIN OFFERING**.{????}
**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??
Isaiah 1:11: "The multitude of your sacrifices--what are they to Me?" says the Lord. "I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats!"
Jeremiah 6:20: The Lord says, "Your burnt offerings are not acceptable; your sacrifices do not please Me!!"
Hebrews 10:8-10: First He said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings You did not desire, nor were You pleased with them," although the law required them to be made. Then He said, "Here I am, I have come to do Your will." He sets aside the first **TO ESTABLISH THE SECOND**. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ **ONCE FOR ALL**!!
Hebrews 9:22; 26-28: The law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood **THERE IS NO FORGIVENESS**.... But now He has appeared **ONCE FOR ALL** at the end of the ages to do away with sin **BY THE SACRIFICE OF HIMSELF**!! Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, and Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people, and He will appear a second time {And not a third time}, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him!!
Mr. Harding draws a sharp distinction concerning the "promise-hope- inheritance" theme in its "firstfruit-deposit" experience in the lives of the pre-parousia believers living on earth, compared to the "hope of glory" in its fullness that these same Christians would shortly experience at Christ’s parousia. These believers had arrived at the very threshold of heaven! "But you have drawn near Mount Zion, even the city of the living God, to a heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, and to a gathering and an assembly of the first-born ones having been enrolled in Heaven; and to God the Judge of all, and to spirits of just ones who have been perfected; and to Jesus the Mediator of a new covenant, and to blood of sprinkling speaking better things than that of Abel." (Heb. 12:22-24)
C. Like other preterists who believe in "The Literal Rapture Expectation" view, Mr. Harding sees the necessity of both the dead saints being delivered out of Sheol/Hades and those living first century saints all being gathered together as one body and caught up to be with Jesus Christ at the time of the parousia. Citing specific scriptures that teach this, such as Heb. 11:40 ("God having foreseen something better concerning us, that they should not be perfected apart from us"), Mr. Harding stresses the point that any view of the rapture which separates the time of final glorification of the pre-parousia dead saints from that of the pre-parousia living saints, who allegedly would not go to heaven until the time of their physical death, actually contradicts the clear teaching of scripture.
Ian Harding also teaches that the "deposit-firstfruit" experience of the first century living Christians parallels the experience that we 21st century believers have today. Yet he carefully notes the exceptions that we have with the completed canon of holy scripture, and we are not looking for a repeat-parousia event. Rather, we today anticipate our physical death, at which time we will enter into the fulfillment of all the promises that first century believers experienced at the parousia about AD 70. So Mr. Harding sees a real parallel experientially of Christians living today with those pre-parousia saints of the first century. And that is one reason why we today can so readily identify with those suffering saints and can draw so much benefit and comfort from reading the New Testament scriptures. Yes, we too have the "deposit-firstfruit" experience that those early believers had!
Differing with some other preterists who maintain that the ministry of the Holy Spirit as Paraclete was completed at AD 70, Mr. Harding sees no support from scripture to hold this view. He teaches that the ministry of the Paraclete as set forth in John 14-16 is just as much needed by Christians today as His ministry to the pre-parousia Christians was needed in the apostolic period. He firmly believes that the present day ministry of the Holy Spirit, in His equipping for service, in His comforting ministry, in His indwelling in the hearts of God’s people, and everything else that the New Covenant promises to sustain us, is ours, as we await our personal call to the heavenly realm.
We need not be "comfortable Christians" and be lax in our reaching people with the Gospel , helping the poor which Y'shua said would always be with us and repenting of sin .
Where are you reading this? Scripture references please.
I don't know that anybody is arguing. I'm just wondering where you came up with some of these ideas, as Jesus will rule 1000 years out of Jerusalem before Armageddon takes place. If Armageddon takes place at the time of the Second Coming, then what's the point of locking up Satan in the Abyss for 1000 years, then letting him loose? Who is he supposed to try and deceive when he comes out of the pit if the 2/3 were wiped out?
Also, with the "rapture" idea, if we're all suddenly removed, then who is Jesus supposed to be reigning over?
Have you found a verse yet that says we will be "raptured?"
**WE ARE ALL WAITING FOR THE NEW HEAVEN THE NEW EARTH AND THE ETERNAL NEW JERUSALEM**!!
Hebrews 12:26-28: God says, "Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens. The words "once more" indicate the removing of what can be shaken--that is created things--so that what cannot be shaken may remain. Therefore, since we are receiving a *KINGDOM* that can not be shaken let us be thankful...for our God is a consuming fire!
2 Peter 3:10-13: But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will DISAPPEAR with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and *EVERYTHING* in it will be burned up {NIV}. Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you {**CHURCH SAINTS*} wait eagerly for the Day of God to come. {NIV} That Day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with His promise **WE** {Excluding the Preterists and Chuckles} are looking forward to a New heavens and a New Earth, the home of righteousness.
I Corinthians 15:50--51: I declare to you brothers, that flesh and blood CANNOT INHERIT the *KINGDOM OF GOD*... Listen I tell you a mystery: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet."
John 18:36: Jesus says, "My *KINGDOM* is not of this world....But now, my Kingdom is from another place!!"
Matthew 25:31-34: Jesus says, "When the Son of Man comes in His glory , and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people one from another..He will put the sheep on the right and the goats on His left. Then the King will say to those on His right, "Come you who are blessed of My Father, take your inheritance, the *KINGDOM* prepared for you!!"
**WE** ARE ALL WAITING FOR THE NEW EARTH, THE NEW HEAVENS AND THE HEAVENLY NEW JERUSALEM!!
Revelation 21:1-5: Then I saw a New heaven and a New Earth, for the {present} first heaven and first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the **NEW JERUSALEM**, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes, There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making **EVERYTHING NEW**!" Then He said, "Write this down, for these words are TRUSTWORTHY and TRUE!"
Hebrews 11:13-16: All these people {Abraham, Sarah Isaac, Jacob, Noah etc} were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth. People who say such things show they are looking for a country of their own. If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. Instead, they were looking for a BETTER COUNTRY--a HEAVENLY ONE. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a *CITY* (The *NEW JERUSALEM*} for them!!
Galatians 4:25,26: Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. But the **JERUSALEM** that is **ABOVE** is free, and she is our MOTHER !!
The New Jerusalem is described in Revelation 21:9 to Revelation 22:5. The New Jerusalem will be 12,000 stadia long, high and wide as per Revelation 21:16. A stadia is 606 feet long which is the exact same length as the ancient Greek stadium. 606 feet times 12,000 equals 7,272,000 feet which is 1377 miles plus 1,440 feet. A mile is exactly 5,280 feet. {1377 times 5,280 feet equal 7,270,560 feet.} And so the New Jerusalem will be exactly 1377 miles plus 1,440 feet long, wide and high!!
Revelation 21:9-12,15-16,19,23,27; Revelation 22:1-6: The angel said to John, “Come, I will show you the Bride the Wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of Heaven from God It shone like the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel. It had a great high wall {1377 miles plus 1,440 feet HIGH!} with 12 gates, and with 12 angels at the gates.
The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the City, its gates and its walls. The City was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the City with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia {A Stadia is exactly 606 feet} in length, and as wide and high as it is long. {1377 miles plus 1,440 feet long, wide and high} The wall was made of Jasper, and the City of pure gold, as pure as glass. The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone....... The great street of the City was of pure gold, like transparent glass...... Only those written in the Lamb's Book of Life will be able to enter the New Jerusalem!
Then the angel showed me the river of the Water of Life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and the Lamb {Jesus} down the middle of the great street of the City. On each side of the river stood the Tree of Life, bearing 12 crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month... The throne of God and of the **LAMB** will be in the City, and his servants will serve Him. They will see His face and His name will be on their foreheads. There will be no more night!! They will not need the light of the lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign **FOR EVER AND EVER**. The angel said to me, “These words are TRUSTWORTHY and TRUE!!”
JESUS WILL WRITE ON US THE NAME OF THE CITY OF GOD THE **NEW JERUSALEM**!!
Revelation 2:18; 3:12,21: Jesus says, "To him who overcomes I will give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it... I will write on him the name of the City of My God, the **NEW JERUSALEM**, which is coming down out of heaven from My God....And I will give the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne."
According to Revelation 22:3 the only 2 thrones in the **NEW JERUSALEM** will be the thrones of the **FATHER** and of the **LAMB** Jesus Christ.
