JESUS WAS NO PAGAN PACIFIST NOR DID HE TEACH FALSE PACIFISM
Posted : 23 Nov, 2019 11:50 AM
Matt 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
2 Cor 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
I guess it comes down to how you define "pacifism." In most cases, we are expected to be peacemakers. Remember, our battles shouldn't be against one another.
Eph 4:32
And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
There were times when physical battles were necessary, but I don't believe it should be our first line of action. God can lead us to war, but he can also deliver us from the same.
Psa 144:1-2 [[A Psalm of David.]] Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me.
JESUS WAS NO PAGAN PACIFIST NOR DID HE TEACH FALSE PACIFISM
Posted : 23 Nov, 2019 12:59 PM
TOTH, I agree with you, yes, it may come down to how you define pacifism.
In my posts, I’m reacting to prophetic’s extreme pagan pacifism (or demonic pacifism might be better words). Prophetic’s kind pits the Old Testament against the New.
The Old Testament taught exactly the same principles of loving our enemy that you quoted from the New in your post above.
But the Old Testament makes a clear distinction between Israel’s enemies, which were also God’s enemies and our enemies like a bad neighbor for example.
Prophetic has demonstrated an inability to make distinctions period not just on this topic. As you remember from your thread about Judah’s blessing and Reuben’s birthright. Prophetic refused to acknowledge the biblical distinction between a blessing and a birthright.
JESUS WAS NO PAGAN PACIFIST NOR DID HE TEACH FALSE PACIFISM
Posted : 23 Nov, 2019 01:18 PM
Second revision
TOTH, I agree with you, yes, it may come down to how you define pacifism.
In my posts, I’m reacting to prophetic’s extreme pagan pacifism (or demonic pacifism might be better words). Prophetic’s kind pits the Old Testament against the New.
The Old Testament taught exactly the same principles of loving our enemy that you quoted from the New in your post above.
But the Old Testament makes a clear distinction between Israel’s enemies, (which were also God’s enemies) and our enemies like a bad neighbor, for example.
Prophetic has demonstrated an inability to make distinctions period not just on this topic. As you remember from your thread about Judah’s blessing and Reuben’s birthright. Prophetic refused to acknowledge the biblical distinction between a blessing and a birthright.
JESUS WAS NO PAGAN PACIFIST NOR DID HE TEACH FALSE PACIFISM
Posted : 23 Nov, 2019 02:47 PM
Ridiculous quotes by littlest David:
"God NEVER says anywhere in the OT to “hate and**KILL** your enemies”,
"The Old Testament never teaches to hate and **KILL** our enemies any more than the New Testament does."
Actually you can easily find over 70 verses in the Old Testament to **HATE AND KILL YOUR ENEMIES**. Whereas you can find over 40 verses which commands us to love and pray and feed our enemies and **YOU CAN NOT EVEN FIND ONE VERSE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT WHICH COMMANDS US TO KILL OUR ENEMIES** Instead of killing your enemies Jesus teaches us to love and pray for enemies that they may be saved and go to heaven!!!
And so the Old Testament teaches us to hate and kill your enemies **OVER 70 TIMES**. Whereas the New Testament teaches us to hate and kill your enemies **ZERO TIMES**
AND SO LITTLE DAVID HAS LIED OVER 70 TIMES**
In the OT God ordered Israel to **KILLTHEIR ENEMIES** many times and God helped them do it. However in the NT Jesus commands in Luke 6:27-29: "Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also."
Matthew 5:43,44: Jesus says, "You have heard that is was said, {in the OT} 'Love your neighbor and **HATE YOUR ENEMY**.' **BUT** I tell you. love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven!!"
Whereas in the OT in Leviticus 26:7,8: God said to Israel, "You will **PURSUE YOUR ENEMIES**, and they will fall by the **SWORD** before you. Five of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand, and **YOUR ENEMIES WILL FALL BY THE SWORD** before you!"
Numbers 25:16,17" The Lord said to Moses, "Treat the Midianites as **ENEMIES AND KILL THEM*"!"
Numbers 32:20,21: Moses said to them, "if you will do this--if you will arm yourselves before the Lord for battle and if all of you who are armed cross over the Jordan before the Lord until He has **DRIVEN OUT HIS ENEMIES** out before Him!!"
Deuteronomy 6:18,19: Do what is right and good in the Lord's sight, that it may go well with you and you may go in and take over the good land the Lord has promised on oath to your ancestors, **THRUSTING OUT ALL YOUR ENEMIES BEFORE YOU**, as the Lord said!
Deuteronomy 23:14: For the Lord your God moves about in your camp to protect you and to deliver your **ENEMIES**to you!
Deuteronomy 28:7 The Lord will grant that your **ENEMIES** who go up against you will be defeated before you!
Deuteronomy 30:7: The Lord your God will put all these **CURSES ON YOUR ENEMIES**who hate and persecute you!
Another OT command in Exodus 21:23-25 "If there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, **EYE FOR EYE, TOOTH FOR TOOTH**, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."
This was also changed by these NT commands by Jesus:
Matthew 5:38,39: Jesus commands, "You have heard that it was said {In Exodus 21:23-25 above}, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek turn to him the other also!"
Luke 6:27-29: Jesus commands, "LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you. do not demand it back!"
Luke 6:33-36: Love your enemies, do good to them and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your **REWARD** will be great and you will be children of the Most High because He is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as you Father is merciful!"
Matthew 18:21,22: Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister {or wife} who sins against me? Up to 7 times?" Jesus answered, "I tell you not 7 times but 77 times!" {Also can be translated 70 times 7 times!}
I Peter 3:9: Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called that you may **INHERIT A BLESSING**!
Matthew 5:9: Jesus the **PRINCE OF PEACE** says, "Blessed are the **PEACEMAKERS**, for they will be called the **CHILDREN OF GOD**!"
2 Corinthians 10:3-5: For though we live in the world, **WE DO NOT MAKE WAR AS THE WORLD DOES**! The weapons we fight with **ARE NOT THE WEAPONS OF THE WORLD**. On the contrary, they have **DIVINE POWER** to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God!
Ephesians 6:17: Take the helmet of salvation and the **SWORD** OF THE SPIRIT** which is the **WORD OF GOD**!!
**THE ONLY SWORD BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS MAY USE IS THE SWORD OF THE SPIRIT WHICH IS THE **WORD OF GOD**!!
2 Corinthians 10:3,4: "For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are *NOT* the weapons of the world."
Matthew 26:52: Jesus says, **ALL** who draw the **SWORD** will die by the **SWORD**!"
**HOW DO WE FIGHT THE **GOSPEL OF PEACE**??
Ephesians 6:14-17: Stand firm then, with belt of Truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the **GOSPEL OF PEACE**. in addition to all this, take up the shield of Faith, with which you can extinguish all the arrows of the Evil One. Take the helmet of Salvation and the **SWORD OF THE SPIRIT**, which is the **WORD OF GOD**!!
Hebrews 4:12: For the Word of God is alive and active, **SHARPER THAN ANY DOUL|BLE-EDGED SWORD, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit and it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart!!
I Peter 2:20-23: If you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, THAT YOU SHOULD FOLLOW IN HIS STEPSt .... When they hurled their insults at Him, He did not retaliate; when He suffered, He made no threats. Instead He entrusted Himself to Him who judges Justly!
I Peter 3:8,9,11: Finally, all of you, be like minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble. **DO NOT REPAY EVIL FOR EVIL** or insult with insult. On the contrary, **REPAY EVIL WITH BLESSING**, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing. For... "They must turn from evil and do good; they **MUST SEEK PEACE AND PURSUE IT**!"
Romans 14:17-19: For the Kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, **PEACE** and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God an receives human approval. Let us therefore make every effort to do **WHAT LEADS TO PEACE**!
Hebrews 12:14 Make every effort **TO LIVE IN PEACE WITH EVERYONE**!
Matthew 5:43-45: Jesus says, "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' {As per the OT}. But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven!"
Matthew 6:14,15: Jesus says, "If you forgive other people who sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, you Father will not forgive your sins!"
John 18:36: Jesus says, "My Kingdom is not of this world. If it were, My servants would fight to prevent My arrest. But now My Kingdom is from another place!"
Luke 23:33,34: When they came to the place of the Skull, they crucified Him there... Jesus said, "Father forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing!"
Romans 12:19-21: Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. On the contrary: If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty give him something to drink. In doing this you will heap burning coals on his head. Do not be overcome by evil, but **OVERCOME EVIL WITH GOOD**!
I Peter 4:8-10: Above all, **LOVE** each other deeply, because **LOVE** covers over a multitude of sins. Offer hospitality to one another without grumbling. Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, faithfully administering God's grace in its various forms!
Colossians 3:12-15: As God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on **LOVE**, which binds them all together in perfect unity! Let the **PEACE OF CHRIST** rule in your hearts. since of members of one body, you were **CALLED TO PEACE**!
Isaiah 9:6,7: For unto us a Child is born, to us a Son is given, and the government will be on His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, and **PRINCE OF PEACE**. Of the greatness of His government and **PEACE** there will be no end!!
Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me! Therefore go and make disciples of all nations.... Teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING** I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age!"
JESUS WAS NO PAGAN PACIFIST NOR DID HE TEACH FALSE PACIFISM
Posted : 23 Nov, 2019 03:49 PM
David,
I think it's always important to look at the "root" of something. Why is it the way it is? Is it the actual person, or is it something influencing them? If it's "something else", then that's where the battle lies. You have to remove the "root" of influence.
Matt 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
As far as prophetic. I am not bothered by him, and I think sometimes he is spot on with things. Regardless, at least he's trying to figure things out and I have no doubt that he does study. In the grand scope of things, I don't think any of us get it right all the time. We just keep learning and pushing forward, and lift each other up.
JESUS WAS NO PAGAN PACIFIST NOR DID HE TEACH FALSE PACIFISM
Posted : 23 Nov, 2019 11:55 PM
Toth quote:
We just keep learning and pushing forward, and lift each other up.
End quote
Ummm..doesn't sound like Richard!
He could be a bit respectful...but NO....he likes to shove his doctrine and beliefs down your throat and if you don't agree it's satanic or other such name calling...."Littlest David"..ha!...littlest David has more truth in his littlest finger than Richard's whole hand.
JESUS WAS NO PAGAN PACIFIST NOR DID HE TEACH FALSE PACIFISM
Posted : 24 Nov, 2019 04:30 AM
TOTH
Thank for the reply. I couldn’t quite follow your fist paragraph. If it would be helpful maybe if you expand with what you started on there.
Your last paragraph
Quote
“As far as prophetic. I am not bothered by him, and I think sometimes he is spot on with things. Regardless, at least he's trying to figure things out and I have no doubt that he does study. In the grand scope of things, I don't think any of us get it right all the time. We just keep learning and pushing forward, and lift each other up.”
End Quote
I agree “prophetic” is sometimes “spot on” but only like a stopped clock is right at least twice each day.
Its true some false teachers are often more accurate, more informed and study more often on certain biblical teachings than the average Christian but that doesn’t mean we simply give them a pass especially when they’re in the habit of speaking falsehoods.
You say and I quote: “I don't think any of us get it right all the time. We just keep learning and pushing forward, and lift each other up.”
I agree, that’s why we “study to show ourselves approved...” like scripture says. That means we’re also open to correction.
You saw how “prophetic” resists the **direct teaching of scripture** when we were discussing Rueben’s birthright and how he inserted scripture that had little to do with the birthright.
Although my two citations of scripture clearly contradicted “prophetic’s” false teaching he refused to adjust his teaching to them. Then he attacks me with his notorious “satanic” name calling and accusing me of lying.
His behavior on your thread is just the tip of the iceberg. That’s the mark of one who is unteachable and who is deeply entrenched in false doctrine.
Proverbs 9
7He who corrects a mocker brings shame on himself;
he who rebukes a wicked man taints himself.
8Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you;
rebuke a wise man, and he will love you.
9Instruct a wise man, and he will be wiser still;
teach a righteous man, and he will increase his learning.
JESUS WAS NO PAGAN PACIFIST NOR DID HE TEACH FALSE PACIFISM
Posted : 24 Nov, 2019 10:01 AM
**LITTLEST DAVID** and **SATAN** deniy that God's saints can receive countless **ETERNAL HEAVENLY REWARDS** for faithful and loving service!!
**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??
**SALVATION IS 100% FREE WHILE ETERNAL HEAVENLY REWARDS ARE 100% EARNED**!!
**SALVATION IS 100% FREE**
Titus 3:3,4: At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. But when the kindness and **LOVE** of God our Savior appeared , He saved us, **NOT BECAUSE OF RIGHTEOUS THINGS WE HAD DONE**, but because of **HIS MERCY**!!
John 1:12,13: To all who received Him, to those who believed in His name, he gave the right to become children of God--children born not of natural descent, **NOR OF A HUMAN DECISION** or a husband's will but, **BORN OF GOD**!!
John 6:37,39,44,65: Jesus says, "**ALL** that the Father gives Me **WILL** come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will **NEVER** drive away... And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall **LOSE NONE** of all that He has given Me, but raise them up at the Last Day.... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father who sent Me **DRAWS HIM**, and I will raise him up at the Last Day!!... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father has **ENABLED THEM**!!"
Ephesians 2:8,9: For it is by **GRACE** you have been saved, through **FAITH**—and this **NOT FROM YOURSELVES**, it is the **GIFT OF GOD**—not by works. So that no one can boast. For we are **GOD'S WORKMANSHIP**, created in Christ Jesus to do **GOOD WORKS**, which God prepared in advance for us to do!
Romans 12:3: For by the **GRACE GIVEN ME** I say to every one of you. Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourselves with sober judgment, in accordance with the **FAITH GOD HAS DISTRIBUTED TO EACH OF YOU**... We have different gifts, according to the **GRACE GIVEN TO EACH OF US**!!
Romans 9:15,16,18: God says, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God's mercy...Therefore God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden. {But God's saints still preach God's Word to everyone}
John 15:16: Jesus says, You did not choose Me, but I **CHOSE YOU**and appointed you so that you might bear **FRUIT**--**FRUIT** that will last!!
Matthew 22:14: Jesus says, "MANY ARE INVITED**, but few are **CHOSEN**!"
Mar 13:20: Jesus says, "If the Lord had not cut short those days, no on would survive, but for the sake of the **ELECT**, whom He has **CHOSEN, He has shortened them!" {The Lord has shortened the Great Tribulation from 3 1/2 years or 1278 days to 1260 days}
John 13:18: Jesus says, "I am not referring to all of you, I know those I have **CHOSEN**!
Ephesians 1:4-8; 11,12: In love He **PREDESTINED** us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will--to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the One He loves, In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding... In Him we were also **CHOSEN**, having been **PREDESTINED** in accordance to the plan of Him who works out everything in conformity to the purpose of His will, in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be to the **PRAISE OF HIS GLORY**!!
I Thessalonians 1:4: For we know, brothers loved by God, that He has **CHOSEN YOU**, because our Gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction!
I Peter 2:9: But you are a **CHOSEN PEOPLE**, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you might declare the praise of Him who **CALLED YOU** out of darkness into His wonderful light!!
Revelation 17:14: They will make war against the **LAMB** but the **LAMB** will overcome them because He is **LORD** of lords and **KING** of kings and with Him will be His **CALLED** **CHOSEN** and **FAITHFUL** followers!! {Riding on white horses right after the Marriage Feast of the **LAMB** as per Revelation 19:7-20!}
Romans 6:23: The wages of sin is death, but the **GIFT OF GOD** is **ETERNAL LIFE**!
God's Word clearly teaches that faith, salvation, the Holy Spirit and eternal life are all 100 percent **FREE GIFTS OF GOD** and that the two main incentives for doing good works is being thankful to God for these amazing **FREE GIFTS** and to **EARN HEAVENLY ETERNAL REWARDS** which God has promised His chosen saints for faithful and loving service. Whereas those who believe in **SINLESS PERFECTION** believe that we have to earn our salvation and eternal life by doing **GOOD WORKS** and being **SINLESS** and that the only eternal reward is gaining eternal life by what we do; and if we commit even one small sin after we are saved we will loose our salvation and eternal life. And so man and not God becomes the Author and Finisher of our salvation.
**AND SO SALVATION IS 100 PERCENT **FREE** but **ETERNAL REWARDS** are 100 percent **EARNED**!!
Ephesians 6:8: Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, because you know that the Lord will **REWARD** everyone for what ever good he does!
Revelation 22:12 Jesus says, “Behold I am coming soon! My **REWARD** is with Me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done!”
Matthew 16:27: Jesus says, “The Son of Man is going to come in His Father's glory with His angels and **THEN** He will **REWARD** each person according to what he has done!”
Luke 11:33,34: Jesus says, "Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a **TREASURE** IN HEAVEN** that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your **TREASURE** is, there your **HEART** will be also!"
2 Corinthians 4:15-18: We fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but on what is **UNSEEN IS **ETERNAL**!
Luke 14:13,14: Jesus says, "When you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be **BLESSED**. Although they cannot repay you you will be **REPAID AT THE RESURRECTION** of the righteous!"
2 Corinthians 5:9,10: We make it our goal to please Him... for we must all appear before the Judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
1 Corinthians 3:13-15: His work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his **REWARD**. If it is burned up he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
How to Win Heavenly CROWNS:
I Corinthians 9:24-27: Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. Everyone who competes in the games goes in to strict training. They do it to get a **CROWN** that will not last; but we do it to get a **CROWN THAT WILL LAST FOREVER**! Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize!
2 John 1:8: Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be **REWARDED** fully!.
Revelation 3:11: Jesus says, “I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your **CROWN**!”
2 Timothy 4:7,8: I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Now there is in store for me the **CROWN** of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me **ON THAT DAY**—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for His appearing!
The **CROWN** of Life for those who persevere under trials and persecution:
James 1:12: Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the **CROWN OF LIFE** that God has promised to those who love Him!
Revelation 2:10 Jesus says, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer... Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the **CROWN OF LIFE**!”
Matthew 5:11,12: Jesus says, “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your **REWARD IN HEAVEN**!”
Luke6:22,23: Jesus says, "Blessed are you when people hate you, when they reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man. Rejoice in that day and **JUMP FOR JOY**, because great is your **REWARD IN HEAVEN**!"
Daniel 12:3: Those who impart wisdom will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness like the stars for ever and ever!!
Matthew 19:29: Jesus says, "Everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children **FOR MY SAKE** will receive a **HUNDRED TIMES AS MUCH** and will inherit eternal life!!"
**LITTLEST DAVID** and **SATAN** deny that God's saints can receive countless **ETERNAL HEAVENLY REWARDS** for faithful and loving service!
