Author Thread: Who, or what are you under ( hupotasso )
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Who, or what are you under ( hupotasso )
Posted : 12 Aug, 2019 03:55 PM

Hello everyone,

This question entered my mind as I was almost finished working today.

Who, Or what are you under.

Are you under the law ?

Are you under Grace ?

Are you under Messiah ?

Give your answer with scripture, in order to have discussions.

Messiah says ' Come follow me '

The Good Shepherd ' Places His soul OVER the sheep.



Remember, Where there is no wood , there is no fire.

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Who, or what are you under ( hupotasso )
Posted : 13 Aug, 2019 02:14 AM

1Corinthians 9:21 ►

To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.



Notice but under the law TO Messiah , not law OF Messiah.

There is a big difference.

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Who, or what are you under ( hupotasso )
Posted : 13 Aug, 2019 05:07 AM

John 14:23,24: Jesus says, Anyone who loves Me **WILL OBEY MY TEACHING**. My Father will love them, and We will come to them and make Our home with them. Anyone who does not love Me will not obey My teaching!"



John 16:12-14 Jesus says, "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all the Truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify Me because it is from Me that he will receive what he will make known to you!"



And holy spirit inspired the 8 writers of the 27 books of the New Testament to write everything Jesus commanded him to write!!



Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, "**ALL AUTHORITY** in heaven and on earth has been given to **ME**. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations... Teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU**. And surely I am with you always!!"



I Corinthians 9:21: I am under **CHRIST'S LAW**!!



Galatians 6:2: Fulfill the **LAW OF CHRIST**!!



Galatians 3:23-25: "Before faith came, we were held prisoners by the {**OT**} law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, *WE* ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE {**OT**} LAW!!"



*WE* ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE LAW!! Galatians 3:25



Galatians 2:14-16: Paul said, When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs? We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' know that a man is NOT justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.!"



Galatians 2:20,21: The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"



Galatians 3:10-13: "All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." Clearly **NO ONE IS JUSTIFIED BEFORE GOD BY THE LAW*, because, "The righteous will live by faith." The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them." Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us!



Galatians 3:23-25: "Before faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, *WE* ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE LAW!!"



Hebrews 7:18,19: The former regulation is SET ASIDE because it was weak and useless; for the law made nothing perfect, and a **BETTER HOPE** is introduced, by which we draw near to God.!



Hebrews 8:8,9,13: "The time is coming." says the Lord, "when I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah".... By calling this Covenant "NEW", He has made the first one **OBSOLETE**; and what is OBSOLETE and aging will soon disappear."



Hebrews 8:6: But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which He is Mediator is **SUPERIOR TO THE OLD ONE**, and it is founded on better promises.



Colossians 2:16,17: Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you **EAT** or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a *SHADOW* of the things that were to come, the reality, however, is found in Christ!!!



Ephesians 1:13: You also were included in Christ **WHEN** you heard the **WORD** of Truth, the gospel of your salvation.



Ephesians 2:17: Take the sword of the Spirit, which is the **WORD OF GOD**!



Colossians 1:25: I have become its servant by the commission God gave to me to present to you the **WORD OF GOD IN ALL ITS FULLNESS**!



Colossians 3:16: Let the **WORD OF CHRIST** dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom!



2 Timothy 3:15,16: 4:1,2: You have known the **HOLY SCRIPTURES**, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. **ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD-BREATHED** and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of His appearing and His kingdom, I give you this charge: **PREACH THE WORD**!! {**WHICH IS THE ENTIRE NEW COVENANT AND NEW TESTAMENT**!!} Be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine!

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Who, or what are you under ( hupotasso )
Posted : 13 Aug, 2019 10:11 AM

John 14:23,24: Jesus says, Anyone who loves Me **WILL OBEY MY TEACHING**. My Father will love them, and We will come to them and make Our home with them. Anyone who does not love Me will not obey My teaching!"



John 16:12-14 Jesus says, "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all the Truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify Me because it is from Me that he will receive what he will make known to you!"



And holy spirit inspired the 8 writers of the 27 books of the New Testament to write everything Jesus commanded him to write!!



The New Covenant of Jesus **ELIMINATED** about 550 of the 613 OT laws and **ADDED** about 400 New Testament laws which God's chosen saints love to follow with the hope of countless eternal heavenly rewards for faithful and loving service and not to earn their salvation which was completely paid for by the blood atonement of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ!!



Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, "**ALL AUTHORITY** in heaven and on earth has been given to **ME**. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations... Teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU**. And surely I am with you always!!"



I Corinthians 9:21: I am under **CHRIST'S LAW**!!



Galatians 6:2: Fulfill the **LAW OF CHRIST**!!



Galatians 3:23-25: "Before faith came, we were held prisoners by the {**OT**} law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, *WE* ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE {**OT**} LAW!!"



*WE* ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE LAW!! Galatians 3:25!



Galatians 2:14-16: Paul said, When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs? We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' know that a man is NOT justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.!"



Galatians 2:20,21: The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the {OT} law, Christ died for nothing!"



Galatians 3:10-13: "All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." Clearly **NO ONE IS JUSTIFIED BEFORE GOD BY THE {OT} LAW*, because, "The righteous will live by faith." The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them." Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us!



Galatians 3:23-25: "Before faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, *WE* ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE {OT} LAW!!"



Hebrews 7:18,19: The former regulation is SET ASIDE because it was weak and useless; for the law made nothing perfect, and a **BETTER HOPE** is introduced, by which we draw near to God.!



Hebrews 8:8,9,13: "The time is coming." says the Lord, "when I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah".... By calling this Covenant "NEW", He has made the first one **OBSOLETE**; and what is OBSOLETE and aging will soon disappear."



Hebrews 8:6: But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which He is Mediator is **SUPERIOR TO THE OLD ONE**, and it is founded on better promises.



Colossians 2:16,17: Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you **EAT** or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a *SHADOW* of the things that were to come, the reality, however, is found in Christ!!!



Ephesians 1:13: You also were included in Christ **WHEN** you heard the **WORD** of Truth, the gospel of your salvation.



Ephesians 2:17: Take the sword of the Spirit, which is the **WORD OF GOD**!



Colossians 1:25: I have become its servant by the commission God gave to me to present to you the **WORD OF GOD IN ALL ITS FULLNESS**!



Colossians 3:16: Let the **WORD OF CHRIST** dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom!



2 Timothy 3:15,16: 4:1,2: You have known the **HOLY SCRIPTURES**, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. **ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD-BREATHED** and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of His appearing and His kingdom, I give you this charge: **PREACH THE WORD**!! {**WHICH IS THE ENTIRE NEW COVENANT AND NEW TESTAMENT**!!} Be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when people {Like Zecharyah, GNWS & KJVonly} will not put up with sound doctrine!

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KJVonly

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Who, or what are you under ( hupotasso )
Posted : 13 Aug, 2019 11:36 AM

When you point a finger you got 3 pointing back..

{Like Zecharyah, GNWS & KJVonly}

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KJVonly

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Who, or what are you under ( hupotasso )
Posted : 13 Aug, 2019 11:38 AM

Zech

I meant to answer GSNW thread..Who and what are you under.

I think Grace should answer also since he brought it up.

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Who, or what are you under ( hupotasso )
Posted : 13 Aug, 2019 11:59 AM

**THE PRETERISTS LIKE KJVONLY BELIEVE THAT ALL OF THE FOLLOWING EVENTS TOOK PLACE IN AD 70**?



Matthew 24:1-3: Jesus left the Temple and was walking away when Hid disciples came up to to call his attention to its buildings. "Do you see all these things?" Jesus asked, "Truly I tell you, not one stone will be left on another; every one will be thrown down!" As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us, they said, "{Question #1} When will this happen, and {Question #2} what will be the sign of your Coming and the **END** of the age?"



The **PRETERISTS** believe this was only 1 Question??



The Mount of Olives Prophecies and answers to these 2 questions by Jesus are in Matthew 24 and 25 Mark 13 and Luke 21. However the answer to Question {#1} as to when the Temple will be completely destroyed in AD 70 is only answered in Luke 21:20-24 below when Jesus warns His saints to flee to the mountains!:



Luke 21:20-24: Jesus prophesied, "When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its destruction is near {In AD 70}. Then let those in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out and let those in the countrynot enter the city. For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written {See Daniel 9:26}... Ther will be great distress in the land against this people. They {The Jews} will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. {This prophecy was **FULFILLED** when the Jews took over East Jerusalem on May 14th, AD 1948 and completed when the Jews took over West Jerusalem form the Jordanian Gentiles on June 7th AD 1967 almost 1900 years later!



All of the other prophecies by Jesus in the Mount of Olives prophecies in Matthew 24 and 25, Mark 13 and Luke 21 refer to Question #2 "What will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age? will be completed by the 42-month {See Rev 13:4-10 below} Great Tribulation just before the Second Coming of Jesus on the Last Day when all of his saints will be resurrected and receive their new heavenly bodies immediately followed by the resurrection of the Lost and Judgement Day in Matthew 25:31-46



**SUCH AS** Matthew 24:9-13 which prophesies the great falling away at the beginning of the Great Tribulation of many in the church when they will be hated by **ALL** the nations of the world followed by the prophecy by Jesus in Matthew 24:14 that the Goispel must be preacxhed to **ALL** the nations of the world before the End will come. By AD 70 the Gospel had only been preached to those nations in the Roman Empire!



The **PRETERISTS** like KJVonly believe that all of the following events took place in AD 70 ????



In Matthew 24:3,9-13: The disciples asked Jesus, “What will be the sign of your Coming and the end of the age?? Jesus answered….. {During the 42-month Great Tribulation} “Then *YOU* will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and *YOU will be hated by **ALL NATIONS** **BECAUSE OF ME**. At that time many will turn away from the Faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of *MOST will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the **END** will be saved.”



Rev 13:4-10: Men worshiped the dragon {Satan} because he had given authority to the Beast {666} and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the Beast? Who can make war against him?” The Beast will exercise his authority for 42 {30-day} months {1260 days}, He will be given authority over **EVERY** tribe, people, language and **NATION**. All inhabitants of the earth will worship the Beast--all whose names have not been written in the **LAMB'S** Book of Life. Whoever has ears let him hear: "If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity they will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword he will be killed." This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of God's saints!



Matthew 24:14: Jesus prophesied, "And this Gospel of the Kingdom will be preached in the **WHOLE WORLD** as a testimony to **ALL NATIONS** and **THEN the **END will come!"



Matthew 24:29-31: Immediately after the distress of those {1260} days the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light and the **STARS WILL FALL** from the sky! {Luke 21:28 adds "When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near!"} Then will ***APPEAR*** the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. and then all the {Unsaved} peoples of the earth will mourn when the see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a loud {7th & Last} trumpet call, and the will gather **HIS ELECT** from the 4 winds, from one end of heavens to the other!" {Mark 13:27 adds "From the ends of the earth!"}



Any honest Bible scholar will admit that none of the above events took place in AD 70 and must all take place in the **FUTURE**. And therefore the Preterist belief that all these events took place in AD 70 is completely ridiculous!!



Matthew 25:31-34,41,46: Jesus prophesied, "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before Him, an He will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on His right and the goats on His left. **THEN** the King will say to those on his right. Come, you are blessed by My Father ; take your inhreritance , the Kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world... "Then He will say to those on His left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared fror the Devil and his angels....**THEN** they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life!"



Ay honest Bible scholar will admit that none of the above events took place in AD 70 and must akll take place in the **FUTURE**. And therefore the Preterist belief that all,the above events took place in AD 70 is completely ridiculous!

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Who, or what are you under ( hupotasso )
Posted : 13 Aug, 2019 06:08 PM

From Josephus the Jewish historian...

I thought you may find this interesting.

A SWORD IN THE SKY

“So it was when a star resembling a sword, stood over the city[Jerusalem] and a comet which continued for a year.” [In 66 AD]



Keep in mind what the shape of a sword is and how closely a sword appears to a cross. If swords and crosses are similarly shaped, then perhaps this statement by Jesus in the Olivet Discourse was fulfilled by the sign of the sword in the sky:



“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.” (Matt. 24:30)



The “Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven” is a reference to the judgment of Jerusalem which was physically manifested in the Roman Army which surrounded the city and destroyed it.

THE LAST PROPHET: JESUS/JOSHUA

“But a further portent was even more alarming. Four years before the war [in Tabernacles time in 62 C.E.] when the city was enjoying profound peace and prosperity, there came to the feast at which it was the custom of all Jews to form tabernacles to God, one Joshua, [Another way of saying “Jesus” or “Y’Shua”] son of Ananias, a rude peasant, who, standing in the Temple, suddenly began to cry out, ‘A voice from the east, a voice from the west, a voice from the four winds; a voice against Jerusalem and the sanctuary, a voice against the bridegroom and the bride, a voice against all the people.’



“Day and night he went about all the alleys with this cry on his lips. Some of the leading citizens, incensed at these ill-omened words, arrested the fellow and severely chastised him. But he without a word on his own behalf or for the private ear of those who smote him only continued his cries as before.

“Thereupon, the magistrates, supposing, as was indeed the case that the man was under some supernatural impulse, brought him before the Roman governor; there, although flayed to the bone with scourges, he neither sued for mercy nor shed a tear, but, merely introducing the most mournful of variations into his ejaculation [words from his mouth], responded to each stroke with ‘Woe to Jerusalem!’



“When Albinus, the [Roman] governor asked him who [he was] and whence he was [where he came from] and why he uttered these cries, he answered him never a word, but unceasingly reiterated his dirge over the city, until Albinus pronounced him a maniac and let him go.



“During the whole period up to the outbreak of the war he neither approached nor was seen talking to any of the citizens, but daily, like a prayer…repeated his lament, ‘Woe to Jerusalem!’ He neither cursed any of those who beat him from day to day, nor blessed those who offered him food: to all men that melancholy presage was his one reply. His cries were loudest at the festivals.



“So for seven years and five months he continued his wail, his voice never flagging nor his strength exhausted, until the siege, having seen his presage verified, he found his rest. For, while going his round and shouting in piercing tones from the wall, ‘Woe once more to the city and to the people and to the Temple,’ as he added a last word, ‘and woe to me also,’ a stone hurled from the ballista struck and killed him on the spot. So with those ominous words still on his lips he passed away.”



How fascinating! One final “Jesus” is sent to the people to pronounce daily, unending “woe” upon them right up until the armies are actually surrounding the city.

NOTE: Titus reportedly refused to accept a wreath of victory, saying that the victory did not come through his own efforts but that he had merely served as an instrument of God’s wrath.[6] [Philostratus, The Life of Apollonius of Tyana]

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Who, or what are you under ( hupotasso )
Posted : 13 Aug, 2019 06:34 PM

The Preterists like KJVonly believe that every prophecy in the Mount of Olives prophecies in Matthew 24 and 25, Mark 13 an Luke 21 and every prophecy in Revelation were totally completed in AD 70??? The Preterists also believe that that all the words in the New Testament are inspired by God.



Let us quote one of the prophecies in in Matthew 25 that could not have happened in ad 70!!



Matthew 25:31-34,41,46: Jesus prophesied, "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before Him, an He will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on His right and the goats on His left. **THEN** the King will say to those on his right. Come, you are blessed by My Father ; take your inhreritance , the Kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world... "Then He will say to those on His left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared fror the Devil and his angels....**THEN** they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life!"



There are about 20 prophecies in the New Testament that absolutely could not have happened in AD 70 so apparently the Preterists are **FALSE PROPHETS OF SATAN**!!

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Who, or what are you under ( hupotasso )
Posted : 13 Aug, 2019 07:02 PM

Praise God, we are not "under the table" because Jew and Gentile are one in the Body of Christ.

Mark 7:28  And she answered and said to him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs.



Rom 3:9    What then? are we better than they? No, not at all: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin



Rom6:14  For sin will not rule over you: because you are not under the law, but under grace.

Thank God we are under grace, not law. If we were not under grace, we would still be under sin.



I could not find the phrase "under Christ" anywhere in the Bible.



The word "grace" is used countless times with God or Christ. So being under grace could be consistent with saying "under Christ." But the Biblical phrase is actually "in Christ." Because everything we have from God is in Christ.



Eph 1:3  Blessed is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, (God) who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavens in Christ

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Who, or what are you under ( hupotasso )
Posted : 14 Aug, 2019 01:00 PM

Hi Montana,

John10

The good shepherd places his SOUL OVER His sheep.

To have something or someone placed over someone, also means that person is also under something or someone.

Am under Messiah the Good Shepherd.

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