Biblical perspectives on race and racism - really broad topic but I thought it would be interesting to let this discussion take its own course!
Have you ever been surprised or taken aback to hear christians refer to themselves or others in terms you thought were questionable for someone proclaiming Christ?
Example? OK. I have met several christians who refer to themselves as "redneck" or the "N" word or other disparaging terms...and proudly I might add.
We all know that perception - how one views himself/herself in the world -carries different meanings in and out of context. There is no debate about the fact that some will argue that using such language to describe oneself or even others is fine depending on HOW it is meant. Others will argue that there should NEVER be a time when real born again christians should "go there". Thats not the question.
The question is NOT so much "Is it ok"? The questions are:
What do you understand the Bible to say our standards should be regarding issues of race and racism.
Is it true that out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh even when joking with others in so called "like company"?
If it is true then what lives in our hearts and is it acceptable to God?
These are the type questions that you may choose to discuss here...I don't know...its your discussion - lets have it! Personally, I think this is one of many "hot button" topics that people are generally afraid of even in churches...In fact many who read this post will simply blow it off making as simple (and cliche) as, "God doesn't see color. Period. End of story." We get that. But how do we explain that Sunday mornings is the most segregated (separated) time in our great nation as people tend to worship with others most like themselves. I'm not saying this is wrong or right...its YOUR discussion! I'm just observing the facts and asking you whats behind them? Why aren't we more integrated on Sunday morning than any other day of the week? Is it acceptable - TO GOD? Does it depend on a persons's heart? Again, if so, whats in that persons heart? Does it depend on a persons ability to be comfortable with others - their ideas and views which most certainly will be as diverse as the experience of being...say Afircan American, Native American, or Spanish American for example.
Look heres the thing: We can stick our collective heads in the sand and blow this topic off but we have to deal with the facts: America by and large a "christian" based country whose history is mottled with mistreatment of others presenting differing perspectives on everything from religion, race, politics etc...We are the "melting pot" but there are lumps in the pot. Notably, being a predominantly christian based nation, Christian voices on issues of abortion, politics and even race have more often than not set the direction and tone of our nation. So how is it then that all that is needed to divide Christians along racial lines is something akin to an "OJ" trial or an "Obama presidency" or for that matter a "border patrol" issue". Isn't it true that true christians (people who follow Christ) are expected to put aside differences our worldly counterparts use to divide and come together? Aren't we tasked/required by God to step outside of our "family history/teachings" pick up our crosses and follow Christ example?
Even more simply: How do we feel as individuals when we find ourselves surrounded by those different from ourselves? Personally, I always cringe when I go into our chatrooms and realize ethnic jokes are being told...I wonder how will new babes view this? Atheists? Are they confused? Hurt orangered by our conduct...which brings up another question - integrity (what we do when no one is watching - except God of course! hmmmm)
Is it that we think God will simply wink at our choice of putting HIS word on THIS topic somewhere on the list of "nice but not necessary" - maybe we just dont care.
I don't know what do you think?
**Please enjoy the discussion and add your comments but remember THIS is a christian website! Please do not use disparaging language or inflammatory remarks intended (or not) to cause injury to another. This is an invitation to discuss a touchy topic that needs attention in my opinion - not simply for the sake of debate...but so we can all check on our own lives and line up with Gods word in this area like any other.
At the end of the discussion we'll take a look - together at what Gods standards and expectations are in HIS word, not our interpretation but HIS word plain and simple.
If you are found to be making nasty comments or being "ugly" please note: You will be booted because this is website that honors God. It might get a little dicey as we explore, but let's honor God family!
Ready? Ok lets hear it!
Don't know where to begin?
Some subject you might want to address:
Do certain American groups deem themselves more patriotic or more christian than others professing Christ?
Why do some Americans feel God was created with the birth of our nation ie...God must see things as we see them 'cause we're Americans and no other peoples existed (muslim or otherwise) before us so God must be on our side and no one elses right?
Is it ok to mock/mimic those in other faiths?
Why do some christians have problems with the names other faiths use to address the God they have known like oh...say Allah? Jehovah?...
Ok you get it...play nice:MrT::excited::ROFL:and lets get'erdone!
First let me give you a gut response the posts I've read so far: "I love you, man"!! Ok, famous line from some movie I've since forgotten but the sentiments are true! I'm just so happy to see your interest and participation on this "touchy subject".
Secondly, please allow me to say this to all of my brothers and sisters: This is a blessed site and I love it! It brings people of all walks and from all stations in life together irrespective of background, race, political leaning and religion. In other words this site is phenomenal in that it crosses all those boundaries typically set up in society and allows ALL of Gods kids to come together. The downside, if there is any is this:
We never know to whom we are speaking and it difficult to ascertain sometimes WHAT the meaning is behind the words and HOW those words are intended. Is that post coming from a liscensed minister, prophet, rabbi, or catholic priest? Is it someone who is a smarty pants, smart aleck, or just a miserly old grandma sipping coffee and who may have just finished reading, "How to Talk Down to People and Feel Good" - Just kidding!...Seriously though, face to face and even phone conversations are the best communications we can have because it allows facial expression to be heard and intonation/voice inflection to be "better understood."
I said of of this to say this: PLEASE, please remember three things:
1. No one is forced to engage in any conversation they choose not to be a part of! I don't want anyone to feel that way...there are just too many topics of interest you could engage in here!! However, should you find this topic interesting please feel free to share your thoughts. There are no rights and wrongs here ok? Just dialogue that you are welcome to engage in.
2. Should you find yourself, however, somehow reading the posts all I ask is that if something is said that seems offensive or that you disagree with: ASK FOR CLARIFICATION AND GIVE THE POSTER THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT UNTIL YOU HAVE THAT CLARIFICATION. God has one family and WE are it...all of us together!
3. Third and finally, please understand this about me: I am a student both of the Bible and in the secular world. I love knowledge and wisdom and pray that I will never stop learning about everything! Its my nature - who I am. Teach me how to change spark plugs, how the spacecrafts are launched, how to make apple dumplings or the tenants of Hinduism and you have my attention. Everyone is not made the same but there are probably just as many that thirst for knowledge as not! What I want people to know is that I have picture of a dog for several reasons: One that dog is a miracle God gave me and represents a more "turbulent but powerful season in my life (another time - hehe). Two, my face, identity is known to many and wisdom dictates caution.
My point? I love the Word of God and have a voracious appetite for all things sociological in nature...It is important - almost imperative for me to explore issues linking these two things. I will never introduce a topic without depth or without seeing a deeper purpose that will benefit our family. I, like Peter, have my faults and I confess them before Christ...HE is our perfection. Despite my shortcomings, God is faithful and leads me as He does you to inquire into things that ought to matter to us as humans but more importantly as Christians! If you are offended, please forgive the offender...even if it is me!lol:prayingf:
I will only introduce topics I feel lead to introduce and never EVER for the sole purpose of just "chatting it up". Nothing wrong with that just not my thing. The next topic I hope to introduce will be something that should matter to all Christians: A Bible study on the endtimes that will follow OT prophecies right up to today's events referencing scripture and identifying the role of both people and nations according to the Bible...perhaps Samson you would feel more comfortable with that discussion or not. I don't know. But just know that there are plenty of people on this site who prefer the "lighter" perhaps "less provocative" topics...There are probably just as many who enjoy the thought provoking "more layered" topics.
I selected this topic because: I felt lead to do so. This is not just another black and white discussion (figuratively or literally!lol) It is so much deeper as pointed out by my dear brother - gracefreedme and sister SLJ3!
Heres what I believe personally - nothing to do with any particular church or anything - just what Elisee believes:
1. The word of God is indeed sharper than a two edged sword - it swings back and forth cutting the ministry/leadership just as evenly as it reproves, rebukes and builds up the saints. In other words any lesson God gives me to share is just as much for me as for others!
2. The Bible says MY people are destroyed for lack of knowledge in one place and in another is says the FEAR OF THE LORD is the beginning of WISDOM...and in yet another: In all of your getting - get knowledge. (all you Bible thumpers like me - will recognize PROVERBS)lol. None of us can know everything...each of our thoughts and ideas matter to God and should matter to one another as we learn and grow together.
3. Finally, Elisee believe - just my thing here, that one of the tricks of the enemy is to have christians divided and afraid to tackle the "touchy" topics that keep us repetitiously quoting scriptures against a thing but still found secretly cavorting with thoughts and behaviors that keep us separated as family. Just such a topic is this dicussion or race and racism. It is an obvious part of the fabric we all share and yet FEAR or ANGER keeps us from dealing with it headon as it should be. I dare say not a day goes by when the issue or topic of our differences are not in one way or another considered by someone.
Heres what I am finding but do not have enough time at this writing to delve into: This topic is a blessing and will be beneficial to those who choose to look well below the surface to see the greater, deeper meaning. In the opening post I said: Lets take this where you want it to go...and already something very clear has emerged: A surface level where we can all relate and relay our personal experiences and thoughts and an annointed level where we begin to see the deeper significance that moves WELL BEYOND our personal experiences.
SLJ3 proves this with her comments:
1. Personal level - I too had a similar experience with my young daughter of 3 who sat in a grocery store cart and with wide eyes and astonishment proclaimed (at the top of her lungs) "Look! Look!" she was tapping my arm with great urgency. When I looked I saw a very, very pale white lady with orange freckles scattered all over her face and the reddest hair I'd ever seen. I grew up with much diversity and experienced great diversity while serving my beloved country for 20 year in the US Air Force. But for my young niece who was also familiar with great diversity, it was the striking red hair and brightly colored freckles on this ladies face that made her exclaim as loudly as any three year old might: "LOOK at that white lady!!!" The lady actually laughed as did a lot of people waiting in line. I was embarrassed because it WAS AS IF she had never seen a white person when in truth? She nor I had ever seen such a fierce display of the colors of red and orange. In her limited ability to describe what was so shocking about the lady - her hair and speckled splotches or orange - all she could manage to get out (still pointing of course) "LOOK at that white woman". She was mesmerized and seemed content when the lady bent over to let her touch the frecles. Needless to say I was ready to drop thru the floor! But kids are kids, they are honest and hide nothing...adults might be better served to be that way you think? The Bible says what is done in secret or said in secret or thought in secret will be brought to light...right? Too, our integrity (what we do, say and think when no one - except God of course!) is important.
I don't think I shall ever forget the look on my daughter's (niece I raised) face as she touched the lady's face and then focused on the tip of her finger to see, I guess, if the orange freckle had somehow stuck there.
The deeper part that really spoke to my heart about SLJT3's comments I'll get into later, for now it sufficeth to say that that sheet which represents many things also represents the four corners of the earth, it represents that the old mosaic law of what to or not to eat was to be done away with, and the sheet represents Gods desire for us to not disparage any human as being somehow less worthy. More on this later, Amen?
:glow:SLJ3 I tried to send you a private message but your profile requires that I be 50...I hope you'll change that to include 40 somethings (lol):glow:
But I just wanted to say I love you and thank you for your honesty and integrity. You are a spiritual powerhouse and we have more in common than you might imagine.
1. I worked at Lucasville and know the area quite well
2. My church is halfway between Dayton and Cinci
3. I am working on a doctorate right now in ministry and although I do evangelism work now, I too hope to be "in the field" for my Lord in missions work with our church. We have orphanages in Brazil and Africa.
We might just have to meet up for some coffee and God/good conversation sis!
AND MIRIAM AND AARON SPAKE AGAINST MOSES BECAUSE OF THE ETHIOPIAN WOMAN WHOM HE HAD MARRIED. NUMBERS 12:1
God struck Miriam with leprosy over her prejudice behavior. Aaron he could not strike because he had the anointing cover over him. God couldn't even strike him after he made the golden calf but finally in Numbers chapter 20:28 he takes him out.
Moses removed Aaron's garments and put them on his son Eleazar. And Aaron died there on top of the mountain. Then Moses and Eleazar came down from the mountain,
God doesn't take kindly to racism. We have to love all. The denominations should learn to come together in one accord as they did in the book of Acts, then they would see they power of the holy spirit fall...
First off, if we're going to use "races", it should be pointed out that terms such as African-American, Native-American, European-American, French-American, Irish-American and Spanish-American were used to describe first-generation immigrants who became Americans, NOT FOR RACES. There is really only one which is the Human Race, but if you want to be picky, there are Mongoloids, Negroids and Caucasoids. You can get even more specific, such as regions (example: Nordic, Mediterranian). In reference to "redneck", there's been some confusion on what this means. Originally, it was used for those from the hills who wanted a union and would tie red sashes around their throats--"Here comes them redneckers." I find it funny then that so many liberals refer with a demeaning air to those in the south as "rednecks" when those "rednecks" support unions like the northern liberals.
Also, America's governments are not only based off of biblical interpretations (which while titled Christian may not be entirely Christ-like). We are a Christian country in name and also a de facto Christian country because of the majority of Christians. Does that mean that America is the prime example of Christ's love and knowledge? No. Remember that man's sin is part of the equation.
You have a lot of questions, so this will sound choppy and I probably missed a few. It is true that Christians are supposed to ignore physical aspects, but some get a different interpretation unfortunately. I think "races" were made to be physical examples and nothing more, of no real spiritual meaning other than to say there are differences in the spirit too. Does that mean that one race is all saved and the other not? NO! Only the Lord can see into a man's heart.
When I'm surrounded by different individuals, I guess I don't notice because I'm doing my own thing.
No it is not okay to mock those in other faiths. "Why do some christians have problems with the names other faiths use to address the God they have known like oh...say Allah? Jehovah?." I'm guessing because it identifies their denomination/religion.
The thing is, we are all from the same man and woman. Before the tower of Babel, there was a single language. Before the battles between brothers, it was one nation. Thanks to God, we have the one Father, the one language and the one nation that transcends all of our earhtly classifications.
I have to add that Obama is not a Christian. He is like my mother: believing people can find their own way to Heaven. And the Rev., I don't care what others believe of him, but personally, I think he is hateful. If a person was to d--- another to Hell, or an entire country, would you call him a Christian? I say this while also letting you know that I did not like Bush and I did not vote for McCain in the primaries or general elections. In fact, I voted for Alan Keyes, a man with a stronger spine than all those mentioned previously in this paragraph.
