Being a new creation in Christ means that you have been renewed. The old sinful person you once were has gone as a result of your being completely renewed through Christ. In fact, the word renew can be defined as "changing into something new and different, something better." That really sums up what renewal in Christ means in that we were remade into something better. For some of us, it may have been quite a struggle to remove the old sinful self and totally renovate our lives. It may continue to be a struggle, but know this: if you stay steadfast in your relationship with God, He will continually work in your life to renew you and rid yourself of the stains of sin that may continually plague you.
Colossians 3:1-17 KJV
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
I guess that you just want to focus on a part of what I said, which is fine, I can take criticism.
Being that I have only been a Christian for about 3 years now, is it a sin that I don't have the understanding of the word like you do?
Is it a sin that I have talked more about His works, which is APART of Him?
Does the fact that I grew up in a house where just having the word or talking about Jesus was not allowed make me less of a Christian?
I am still trying to grow in Christ, which I am willing to admit. And I already know that Jesus is the light of the world, because if not for Him shining in my darkest hour I can tell you that I would not be here to even have this conversation with.
Just so you know, when Jesus saved me, the night before I thought about cutting all the fingers off my left hand. So don't go and tell me that I don't know how wonderful Jesus is.
Were you there when I was being physically and mentally abused? Or every time I thought about stepping in front of a car to die because I believed that it was the only way to end the suffering? No you were not, but God was. It wasn't until Jesus came into my life that I realized that He was with me through all of it. And HE kept me from doing it because Jesus loves me, just like HE loves you and everyone else in the world.
But I guess just because I didn't use scripture means that I don't know anything about Jesus. But that is your opinion.
The first versus that stuck with me when I first became saved was Matthew 6:33 and Haggai 1:5-7. But you should already know them since you understand God so much better than I do.
At this point God's not getting the glory in our conversation, so let's stop this. Does God get any glory by you questioning me about my faith?
I don't think so, and if you do then you need to look in the mirror, just like I do and everyone else should, because God doesn't see you in a better light then the rest of us, which again you should know because it's in His word that he is no respecter of persons.
I stand by what i had written, we live by faith not be experience,ask Adam and Eve what happens when we live by experience instead of by Faith in the Word of GOD.
I was not questioning what you believe, but why you are so focused on experiences instead of the Word of GOD.
Ask the people promoting the Toronto blessing, if what they have experienced is of GOD, or the people in Florida, and Georgia which bark like dogs, crow like birds, have dog collars placed on them and are les around on all fours, Yet these people claim this is a new move of the Holy Spirit, BUT we cannot find the believers in Messiah acting like this in the Word of GOD.
I visited a place this morning where the people were told that they should be FEELING better after they leave then before they arrived.
I was not depressed before i arrived but was very depressed after leaving the meeting. The people were told Lets worship the Lord, yet not one person had anything to share from the Word about Messiah, because the so called worship band usurpped the time of the people( about 45 minutes to sing a few songs picked by the band, which is not in the New Covenant).
The so called pastor spoke almost 45 minutes telling jokes, and telling the people how they should live according to a series a church from another state had been using. There was no mention about the character, attitude or personality of Messiah, so how was Messiah worshippped, and how did the people come to know Messiah more intimately,i do not know.
Fellings may FOLLOW Faith, but i would rather walk by Faith in Messiah according to His Word, then to trust in any experiences or feelings i may encounter in this life.
This is the reason I am being so focused on God's works.
When I first became saved, I did not know anything about Him. I had heard the name Jesus, but no one came and told me about Him. No ever said that Jesus loves and died for my sins. I had more experiences with Moslems talking about their faith than any Christians that I did have a chance to meet.
God saved me with an experience of His grace. That night when I thought about cutting my fingers off, all I did was cry out in my spirit for someone to help me. I didn't call on Jesus or God, I was calling out for anyone or anything to save me, regardless of who or what it was.
That following morning I had a peace about me that I had never felt before. I ended up leaving that same day. Do you know what? I had no idea where I was going to go or what I was going to do, but God put me in a place where I was living with a pastor, that is when I got to know this saviour called Jesus and that I don't have to live in the ditch I was in before. That regardless of what is going on around me, that He loves me and will lift me up when I feel hopeless.
So for me, God gave me an experience of His grace before I even knew who He was. That's not how it works for everyone, but that is what He did for me.
I agree that you have to read His word, otherwise you become blind and follow what everyone else tells you. And I also agree that you should never lean on man as you seek God's face. But not everyone who becomes saved hears His word first. Some people only know the name Jesus and cry out His name, but they don't know who He actually is. And some, like me, have to be brought out of their situation before they can hear about Jesus. So I don't want people to underestimate how God works in many ways, not only by His word, but also in His works.
gracenotworksaves I want to see Jesus just as much as anyone else who has a pure love towards God. And I want to be able to meet you in heaven and talk about everything that Jesus has done for us. Same thing with Godismyfather also, I respect everything that he has said. And I hope that we will be able to look back at things like this and think about how great God is that He could take people from many walks of life and bring them together in Jesus name.
Hello I thought I would contribute a little to this intellectual discussion.
It is very intellectual and the wisdom of this world brings nobody to Christ. 1 Corinthians 3:19, 1 Corinthians 1:28, Neither does strife, contradictions, use of many words, or lack of compassion, kindness and love..
1 Timothy 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
Unfortunately people who are well versed in scripture, do not have much good to offer, because they are unable to be humble and correctable themselves, so the new one in Christ can be more sincere, seen in who uses too many words as totally incorrect.....
Ecclesiastes 4:13 Better is a poor and a wise child than an old and foolish king, who will no more be admonished.
Ecclesiastes 5:2 Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few.
I would like to clarify also, the scriptures are not without mystery, Revelation 10:7, depth, and the very wisdom of God, for a person to assume they know what they are talking about, how far are they from the meekness of Christ, as the scribes and Pharisees have greater damnation, Matthew 23:14, so do not be presumptuous or prideful as their examples, 2 Peter 2:10, to consider they knew what they were saying, every time they lifted themselves up to speak to God, about God.
So, when Paul speaks about himself being carnal, and his old man and struggling, his viewpoint highlights the stance for Jewish people, who consider they truly follow God, when they struggle, and have no ability to do all things through Christ who strengthens us. and the flesh against the spirit, is their problem, they cannot do the things they would, and Christians who are exactly the same in behavior, are the same in belief, we are called to righteousness, believe in it, as it is the answer for all things and it is simple, clear and easy. James 3:17
Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
"Unfortunately (where does scripture say it is an unfortunate truth that)
people who are well versed in scripture, (opening fact offered)
do not have much good to offer, (? I've never seen that in the bible. Where does it say this? Where does it say that people who are well versed in the bible do not have much good to offer?)
because they are unable to be humble and correctable themselves, (Where does it say that people who are well versed in scripture are unable to be humble or correctable themselves?)
so the new one in Christ can be more sincere, (Where does it say that new Christians are more sincere than people who are well versed in scripture?)
seen in who uses too many words as totally incorrect....."(I'm not sure I understand what it is you are trying to assert by these words. Care to restate?)
"Brethren, my heart�s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness
----->that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. <-----
3 For they being ignorant of God�s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. 5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, �The man who does those things shall live by them.� 6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, �Do not say in your heart, �Who will ascend into heaven?�� (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 or, ��Who will descend into the abyss?�� (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? �The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart� (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, �Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.� 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For �whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.� 14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: �How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, Who bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, �Lord, who has believed our report?�
-----> 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.�<----- Romans 10
"Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking, 2 as newborn babes,
-----> desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby,<-----
3 if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is gracious." 1 Peter 2
"Then Samuel said to Saul, �Be quiet! And I will tell you what the Lord said to me last night.� "And he said to him, �Speak on.� 17 So Samuel said, �When you were little in your own eyes, were you not head of the tribes of Israel? And did not the Lord anoint you king over Israel? 18 Now the Lord sent you on a mission, and said, �Go, and utterly destroy the sinners, the Amalekites, and fight against them until they are consumed.�
19 ----->Why then did you not obey the voice of the Lord?<-----
Why did you swoop down on the spoil, and do evil in the sight of the Lord?� 20 And Saul said to Samuel, �But I have obeyed the voice of the Lord, and gone on the mission on which the Lord sent me, and brought back Agag king of Amalek; I have utterly destroyed the Amalekites. 21 But the people took of the plunder, sheep and oxen, the best of the things which should have been utterly destroyed, to sacrifice to the Lord your God in Gilgal.� 22 So Samuel said: �Has the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, As in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, And to heed than the fat of rams. 23
-----> For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the Lord, He also has rejected you from being king.�<-----
24 Then Saul said to Samuel, �I have sinned, for I have transgressed the commandment of the Lord and your words, because I feared the people and obeyed their voice. 25 Now therefore, please pardon my sin, and return with me, that I may worship the Lord.� 26 But Samuel said to Saul, �I will not return with you,
----->for you have rejected the word of the Lord,<-----
and the Lord has rejected you from being king over Israel.�
I want to wish you my sincerest congratulations on your renewal. I'm very happy for you and the journey you've embarked on, and I wish you God's richest blessings! The family of God is a bit dysfunctional, as you've already seen, but most of us at least have our hearts in the right place. I don't have a story that compares with yours, but I have done a little bit of dancing with the darkness, as it were. During a period of time when I felt my own faith slipping away, I know that if it weren't for a personal experience with God and with the Holy Spirit at work through several people, I would not be a Christian today, and I've gone to church my whole life.
It's true that we get a picture of who God is and get to know the savior through the scriptures, but actions speak way louder than words! All the Biblical knowledge in the world wouldn't have saved me when I was falling. I needed an experience in the here and now, to prove to me that God still has the personality he shows in His Word; to show that He is still alive and well and His love is at work performing miracles in the lives of His people today, and not just for those in the distant past. Otherwise, the Bible would have just become a dusty old book that shows how to live an ethical life to me.
Don't get me wrong, I agree that studying scripture is still necessary. Many times, understanding how God works through scripture helps us know how we can do ministry for Him, whether we feel called into the actual "vocation" or not, and how we can see His work in our lives. Memorizing scripture can help us to be able to draw strength for life's most difficult struggles, or to give that strength to another in their time of need. It's a gift that can allow us to answer the questions of those who are seeking to start their own journey with God and can be helpful on those occasions where we have to defend ourselves. However, if knowledge is power, and if power corrupts, then such knowledge can certainly corrupt, and it's a trap we have to be wary of. We see that when someone uses that scriptural knowledge to cut people down instead of building them up.
Movie spoiler alert: in "The Book of Eli," near the end of the movie, Eli says "I've been so preoccupied with protecting it[the last Bible], reading it, and studying it every day, [that] I forgot to live by what I learned from it." It happens to us a lot, too; enough to create a stereotypical image of a "Bible-thumping Christian" that frightens and turns away anyone who they call out who doesn't see things EXACTLY the way they do. They become little more than a modern day Pharisee, and we all know how well Jesus got along with the Pharisees. I know that if all that I had received was a constant pelting of scripture when I was in darkness, I would have turned away from God for good. I needed something MORE! When we become more preoccupied with being correct in our reading and understanding of the words than with how we treat others because of what we've learned it can lead to a twisted form of idolatry, where we worship the Book rather than the One about whom the book is written. Rand, you've done an amazing job, reflecting the respect, compassion, and humility in the face of the argument in this thread, probably better than I would have done in your place. We all have to stay humble and teachable, because no matter where we are and where we THINK we are on our journey, God will always take us back to school!
"All the Biblical knowledge in the world wouldn't have saved me when I was falling. I needed an experience in the here and now, to prove to me that God still has the personality he shows in His Word; to show that He is still alive and well and His love is at work performing miracles in the lives of His people today, and not just for those in the distant past. Otherwise, the Bible would have just become a dusty old book that shows how to live an ethical life to me."
"I will praise You with my whole heart; Before the gods I will sing praises to You. 2 I will worship toward Your holy temple, And praise Your name For Your lovingkindness and Your truth;
-----> *****For You have magnified Your word above all Your name.***** <-----
3 In the day when I cried out, You answered me,
And made me bold with strength in my soul." Psalm 138
The Lord rebuke you. How dare you denounce the importance of God's word and the supremacy God has given to His word, such that He exalts it above even His own name! Your experiences are nothing compared to God's holy word, and it is blind arrogance that thinks you can place your experience on par with, or above, God's exalted word.
"For *****the word of God is living and powerful*****, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Hebrews 4:12
"This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate in it day and night, that you may observe to do according to all that is written in it. *****For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success."***** Joshua 1:8
"*****How can a young man cleanse his way? By taking heed according to Your word.***** 10 With my whole heart I have sought You; Oh, let me not wander from Your commandments! 11 *****Your word I have hidden in my heart, That I might not sin against You.***** 12 Blessed are You, O Lord! Teach me Your statutes. 13 With my lips I have declared All the judgments of Your mouth. 14 I have rejoiced in the way of Your testimonies, As much as in all riches. 15 I will meditate on Your precepts, And contemplate Your ways. 16 I will delight myself in Your statutes; I will not forget Your word." Psalm 119:9-16
"Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth." John 17:17
"Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, �If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.�" John 8:30-32
Maybe if you had the humility of feast upon God's word, instead of being consumed with bragamonies, you wouldn't have gotten so far off the path. You do not have the right to assign God's word to the undignified position of a dusty book. It is alive. Your failure does not cause God's holy word to be impotent.
"The wise men are ashamed, They are dismayed and taken. Behold, they have rejected the word of the Lord; So what wisdom do they have?" Jeremiah 8:9
Remembering the whole bible answers your questions. So lets remember it all.
The Lord called Abraham and His people the Hebrews, and freed them from Egypt, and they wandered in the wilderness, because they listened to the disputers, the doubters, misleaders, who were always around to cleverly speak against Gods ways. Numbers 14:22, Numbers 13:32. God also gave His righteous law to the people.
God finally allowed the Hebrews into the land of Israel, and they demanded a king, to be like the people of the rest of the lands. 1 Samuel 10:19. They also received councellors, and along with Gods prophets, many false prophets came along, the scribes advising the kings, and the pastors and Priests as told in scripture, became brutish, and they were the reason for the destruction of Israel, and the Lord allowed lying spirits to deceive the people through these so called prophets. The priests, and prophets, well versed in the law of the Lord, disputed with Jeremiah and achieved the exile of Israel into Babylon. Acts 7:43....
1 Kings 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.
Lamentations 2:14 Thy prophets have seen vain and foolish things for thee: and they have not discovered thine iniquity, to turn away thy captivity; but have seen for thee false burdens and causes of banishment.
Jeremiah 2:8 The priests said not, Where is the LORD? and they that handle the law knew me not: the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit. Jeremiah 5:31
Jeremiah 26:11 Then spake the priests and the prophets unto the princes and to all the people, saying, This man is worthy to die; for he hath prophesied against this city, as ye have heard with your ears.
Now that's fairly straight forward, how well versed people who you think you should trust, are the ones who cause your destruction.
We continue into the new testament, and things were even worse. This time we have complete rule by the scribes and Pharisees, and we see Jesus having to constantly dispute with these well versed people, who as Jesus told us, sat in Moses' seat, they have many things to say, and wish to be your teacher. John 8:3-6...
Matthew 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Now is the end time, and it is entirely worse than even those two previously terrible deceiving times. The deceivers are increased, they are ever learning, and even are satans ministers, each with excellent knowledge of scripture, and fulfilling all prophecies for the end, seducing and deceiving, and you know them by their fruits, they fill the world with strong delusion and lies, the deceiving in unrighteousness, as that is the message the false teaches can speak only, and this is what all believe in, and you see they cannot accept correction, show truth, or speak meekly. The new Christian cannot be as deceiving as the advanced deceivers, and those who talk a lot about Christ, do a lot less. 2 Corinthians 11:15
Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Now shame is another thing the world of false teachers cannot have, the same as Jewish people stick to their own religion, and confidence also, Proverbs 14:16, another sign of lack of sincerity. The 100000 different Christian denominations are not ashamed to give their own versions of Christ, different and opposing, everybody who thinks they have some knowledge of Christ, is able to be your teacher, but God also gave the way to avoid these boastful last time false deceivers, we don't need them at all, they have no authority or power, they are caught, they are defeated, exposed and finished..
Galatians 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
1 John 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Ephesians 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
Covenantbrother is an example of more sincerity, speaking more gently, and being wrongly rebuked. He knows the sanctity of Gods word, and only needs to see for himself the defense of the word of the Lord, as Jesus had over satan. Increase our defenses, realize how powerful the enemy is, and how much you need to know to survive. This is the purpose of these interactions, not for just arguments, but to enlighten people while it is still called to day, get a thirst for scripture for ourselves, and for others who definetely need your support in this battle of faith we might just fail..
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
1 Timothy 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
