Well, Z, I'm not as concerned with DHTM's theology as I am about answering the question. I am familiar with SDA Theology and especially their Eschatology. I'd much rather have a discussion that shows some respect for other views that allows for expression of a variety of ideas and is focused more on discussion than derision.
How about we start showing some respect for the Biblical view and stop giving place to every other antichristian view under the sun? That would be novel, wouldn't it?
Men's views always will have a spin no matter how much they believe their views are the 100% truth.
the Scripture I quoted addresses the OP....with no spin...it was pure Scripture...and zebra always appears to have issues with people posting pure Scripture.
The fact that faith is a gift that is given to us should help Christians realize that it is not our faith in Jesus that matters but the faith of Jesus Christ in us that gets things done by faith!
This is further given witness by the Greek words used for faith that describe it as not our faith but the faith that belongs to and what makes up Jesus living n us. Consequently, it is not a matter of who we believe in that matters but what we believe about jesus that determines whether we are of great faith, or only of little faith.
If we believe in the truth of the 7 foundational doctrines of Christ as they appear in Hebrew 6:1�2 that descibe the truth o Jesus Christ, our faith is significant. In this case the chances of a favorable response to our prayers is much better than someone who does not believe in the truth of the same doctrines despite the fact they believe in Jesus Christ.
This is why knowledge of the truth makes such a difference, and why God said my people are destroyed because of a lack of knowledge.
Ephesians 2:4-9: But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He migh show ine incincomparable riches in His graace, expressed in His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, **IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD**--not by works, so that no one can boast!!!
John 1:12,13: To all who received Him {Jesus} He gave the right to become children of God--children born not of natural descent, nor of human decesion or a husband's will, but **BORN OF GOD**!!
John 6:37,39,44: Jesus says, "All that the Father gives will come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will never drive away..And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall
lose none of all He has given to me, but raise them up on the last Day...No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise them up on the Last Day."
2 Peter 1:5-11: Make every effort to add to your faith {A free **GIFT OF GOD**} goodness, knowledge, self control, perseverance, godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness LOVE. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ...Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!!
I appreciate the cordial responses to the questions. I have couple others now.
Eph 2:8,9; For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Which topic of this verse is the gift? I'm not saying that faith isn't a gift from God, but I don't think that the gift is "Faith" in this verse. The way the sentence is constructed is "by grace ye are saved through faith", we are not saved of ourselves, we are saved by grace, the gift of God. I can't find anywhere else where faith is referred to as a gift, except that "all men receive a measure of faith".
Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Second question, if the verse in the OP states that we have access into grace by faith, what direct role does saving grace have in preceding faith? I don't think either verse is speaking of general grace, it's speaking specifically about saving grace.
I'm more of the belief that the verse Teach quoted is correct. We are granted faith through the hearing of the word, and that faith grants us access into salvation. As far as "hearing" goes, I would say that the bible is clear that is determined by God to the degree that only those He wants to hear will understand His word, but that is a different matter than the one I'm looking for clarification on. I don't think the bible says we're "saved" until we have faith. The direct words of Jesus state that people were saved by their faith, I'm just confused as to why we should think otherwise.
Just for fun -- lets review this again. It's not difficult. I've explained it before.
Grace precedes faith -- this is the order.
(2Tim 1:9 [KJB:PCE])
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.
When was grace given to the Elect? Before the world began. Why did he give grace to his Elect? For his own purpose. This happens in eternity before time.
OK Mark? Do you get that now? BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN.
(Rom 10:17 [KJB:PCE])
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
When does faith come to the Elect? When they hear (understand) the Word of God. This happens in time (history)
(Rom 5:2 [KJB:PCE])
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Read it -- We (the elect) have access into this grace (the grace given to us in eternity) by faith (which is the appointed means in time)
(Eph 2:8 [KJB:PCE])
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Read it -- We (the elect) are saved by grace (the grace given to us in eternity as a gift from God) through faith (which is the appointed means in time)
