If by character assassination, ignoring the truth, condemning as factional, or in some other way, the message of faithful men is silenced, it doesn't change the truth of the gospel.
In ancient Oriental kingdoms, messengers who brought a monarch bad news sometimes suffered the penalty of death. Woe to the messenger who had to tell the king that his army had suffered defeat at the hands of the enemy, that a beloved family member had died, or that affairs of state were in turmoil. Absolute monarchs answered to no one for their actions and messengers could, and sometimes were, dispatched on the spot for being the bearer of bad tidings. Of course, killing the messenger did not change the message, but it gave the king an outlet for his fury.
Such events are not unknown in biblical accounts. Upon hearing that Saul and Jonathan were dead, David slew the messenger who brought the news. Of course, the extenuating circumstance on this occasion was that the messenger was an Amelakite who lied, claiming to have slain Saul at Saul's request. It infuriated David that a pagan had dared to deal so with King Saul, saying, "How wast thou not afraid to stretch forth thine hand to destroy the Lord's anointed?" (2 Sam. 1:14). The messenger paid with his life.
King Herod likewise cut off the head of John the Baptizer since John had boldly opposed the sinful marriage of Herod to Herodias, Philip's wife. John stated: "It is not lawful for thee to have her" (Matt. 14:4). Though Herodias and her daughter were implicated in the plot to kill John, the ultimate power was Herod's and he slew the messenger of God who condemned his sin. Again, killing John did not change the truth that he declared, but he was effectively silenced because of the message he delivered; the messenger paid with his life.
We Don't Kill Messengers Today
Of course, we live in "kinder and gentler" days and messengers are not slain today when they deliver bad news. But messengers are not immune to ill treatment when a communication carries unfavorable tidings. There are more subtle, albeit effective, ways to vent one's displeasure. These "civilized" methods of dispatching unwelcome messengers are even found among members of the church who do not like the truth of God. Gospel preachers have sometimes been on the receiving end of this "kinder and gentler" method of dealing with the messenger: fire the preacher, cut off his support, throw him out of the preacher's house, and haul him over the coals in a business meeting. Paul was no stranger to ill-treatment by brethren, raising the question, "Have I become your enemy by telling you the truth?" (Gal. 4:16). He stated that he had been in "perils often," even among "false brethren" (2 Cor. 11:26). Paul understood the danger of being the bearer of bad news.
Institutional History Continues the Pattern
The wrath of the guilty against the messenger who exposes his guilt is still a viable force to be reckoned with in our time. No, those who preach the truth aren't beheaded, thrust through with spears or stoned to death in the public square. But let us not be so naive as to believe that the anger of the evil-doer cannot find its outlet against the messenger in the twentieth (or twenty-first) century. During the institutional controversy of the 50s, the "yellow flag of quarantine" was an effective tool against many of God's messengers. Meetings were canceled, whisper campaigns were conducted, reputations were ruined by name-calling (some charged as "orphan haters," "church splitters," and such like). Many who did not study the issues were influenced against truth by those who assassinated characters as readily as Herodias demanded the head of John. All of this was done "in the spirit of Jesus," of course!
Messages and Messengers Today That Face Opposition
Every generation faces its own issues, its own controversies, its own forces of iniquity. In one generation it is called Gnosticism, in another institutionalism, in another doctrinal unity-in-diversity. However the titles are changed, the battle remains the same. The battle is truth versus error, law versus iniquity, right versus wrong. The actors on the stage change with each succeeding generation, but the plot remains the same. And one constant that is still with us is, "Kill the messenger." Diotrephes threw some out of the church who received John's letters (3 John 9-10). John was exiled (Rev. 1:9). We don't have the custom of beheading people in our times and no one has been stoned to death like Stephen in centuries (Acts 7:58). But don't think modem iniquity hasn't developed effective means of dealing with those who preach the truth when it is "out of season" (2 Tim. 4:2).
The overwhelming iniquity of our age is that of compromise, of doctrinal unity-in-diversity, by which the unforgivable sin is to have conviction and stand opposed to error. It is a little recognized fact that unity-in-diversity, specifically relating to doctrinal matters, earlier taught by Carl Ketcherside and Leroy Garrett, and considered so radical at the time, has come of age and is quite acceptable among "sound" brethren today. Some brethren mistakenly believed that Carl Ketcherside was isolated, ridiculed and put to flight before he died. Nothing could be further from the truth! The New Hermeneutic Movement today is Carl's unity-in-diversity gone up-town. A doctrine that was once scorned by many as illiterate has become the darling of the sophisticates as they use their Master's and Doctorates from "brotherhood colleges" to encourage fellowship with denominations.
But compromise is not restricted to the ultra-liberals. New ammunition has been found "among us" by those who are turning a misuse of Romans 14 into the breeding ground for a unity-in-diversity that mirrors that of Carl Ketcherside. Used at the first to embrace those who would accept the "alien who would come to God" in unlawful marriages, Romans 14 is quickly being expanded to allow sinful beliefs and doctrines of every sort. Compromise with sin is the order of the day and woe to the messenger who has the conviction to speak out. Kill the messenger? Of course not. But please don't think that just as effective methods are not available to silence those who would "preach the word."
It is possible for the voice of gospel preachers to be stilled just as effectively (and politely) as in the days of the institutional apostasy. The "good of boy" system is still effective by which whispers and innuendoes ruin the reputation of faithful preachers. Brethren are quarantined today by inclusive, unpublished lists which, at the same time, exclude unwanted preachers. Those who raise the voice of opposition are ignored as they appeal to brethren for Bible studies. Careful and studious articles are condemned as "rash," "shoot from the hip," "knee-jerk" attacks by the very ones who refuse to meet and study issues. It is considered bad taste at the best and sinful at the worst to call names and identify those who advocate compromise. Tape recorders are outlawed from study sessions where compromise is taught lest some "troubler of Israel" get an insight to the material presented. Some are obliquely labeled as factional because their stand for truth is too open, too plain, too uncompromising.
The tongue can be as effective as a sword in such controversies. Faithful messengers of the Word have had their characters assailed as "brotherhood watchdogs," "creed makers," "meddlers in other men's matters," and "guardians of truth" so many times that even the innocent and naive are led to believe the lie. Such barbed comments are smilingly pronounced against brethren while they decry the mean spirit of the "name callers" and "busybodies." Even while those who teach error are militant in their spread of compromise, they berate those who oppose them as "too militant." Those who travel across continents to teach error attack those who write in papers such as this one as desiring to direct brotherhood affairs, to control the church universal.
Kill the messenger in the church today? Oh, we are much too polite for that. But this approach is just as deadly, lethal to a fault, and has the advantage of shedding no blood. And, sad to say, it is effective. Those who are guilty can stand in shocked dismay and claim innocence while they continue to spread error and refuse to study. They are the ones with the sweet spirit, who rise above controversy, who refuse to sully their hands in debate. Meanwhile, error continues its destructive march and compromise eats away at the heart of conviction.
The Message Is Not Changed
by Killing the Messenger
Stephen told those who were to stone him to death: "Ye stiff necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it" (Acts 7:51-53). These words will face his murderers at the Judgment.
Herod must still hear the haunting echo of John saying, "It is not lawful for you to have her."
The splash of the water could not wash away the guilt of Pilate even as he consented to the death of Jesus. Pilate is gone but the gospel remains.
And so will it be in our generation. If by character assassination, ignoring the truth, condemning as factional, or in some other way, the message of faithful men is silenced, it doesn't change the truth of the gospel. Doctrinal unity-in-diversity is still compromise no matter if every voice of opposition is stilled. It remains comforting to know, even as Jesus said, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away" (Matt. 24:35). You may kill the messenger, but you can't stop the message.
Ya we all get that you have issues with strong focused women...especially those that teach...And this aint a Church Assembly its a Forum...a Public Area to Chat and get to know People and Possibly meet a potential mate...Teach is a Teacher wether you like it or not...She happens to be a Child of the Most High GOD wether you like it or not...and she will God willing correct a grown man just as she will God willing correct a boy..wether you like it or not...WHO are you to decide whome Yahweh chooses to Teach and /or Deliver a Message to someone whom HE chooses ???...X <>< O
I have issue with a Jezebel spirit. God does not command that a woman is not to teach a man and then turn around and tell a woman to go teach a man. If you do not agree, take it up with him.
(1Tim 2:12 [KJB:PCE])
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
And this is most definitely an assembly of believers.
1 Timothy 2:11�Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.�
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
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The other reference, because there are two, talks about 'the man'...well you are NOT 'the man' and you have no authority over me to usurp. �Because you fail to follow all the other verses in the Bible that address proper Christian behavior, you are not in a position to 'silence' me.
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1 Peter 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. �Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.�
6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:�
7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
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Since you are younger than me, you are to submit unto the elder...
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1 Peter 2:15�For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:�
16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.�
17�Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.
1 Timothy 2:3�For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.�
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
�2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;�
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:�
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
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I will continue to apply the Scriptures I learned from my youth up and the studies I have participated in over my life...you are presumptuous in thinking you study more than others. �It's not always the length of time, but the quality of time...as well as what one reads.
IWA shared ~ I have issue with a Jezebel spirit. God does not command that a woman is not to teach a man and then turn around and tell a woman to go teach a man. If you do not agree, take it up with him.
*** You have a issue with a Jezebel spirit ???...Look to your self on that one...and you take it up with GOD...as for the women teaching comment...I guess ALL the women in the World that teach are going to go to hell because they teach...and the men are going to Heaven ???...Where all your teachers men in school or seminary ???......
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
*** I will suggest the continued reading of this...there is much in this book to study and apply to ones self...including myself...
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is NEITHER MALE nor FEMALE: for ye are ALL ONE in Christ Jesus.
1Cr 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly TEACHERS, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and TEACHERS; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
3. (specifically, of Christ) the community of the Redeemed of Christ whether being on earth or in heaven or both
{used only of people, not a location, structure, etc. Of Christ, used only of the Redeemed, not of the unredeemed in their midst}
KJV: assembly, church
This site most definitely is an assembly of people that are self selecting as being a community of the redeemed. As you can see a location/structure/building is NOT required.
You two may twist and pervert the plain COMMAND of God as much as you want. As, I have said this is a Jezebel spirit. Carry on in open rebellion.
1 Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
(1Cor 14:34 [KJB:PCE])
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
Uh Huh...well...you can call this site a Church all you want...however the Truth is it isnt...Its a Free Dating site that happens to have a Forum section to discuss subjects that pertain to God...Jesus...HolySpirit...and everyday happenings in Life...its a Good place to Fellowship...Edify...Exhort...Its not your personal Soap Box although youve made it very clear that you want to be the Big Cohoona here...Hey...I got a question for ya...When was the last time you or Donna gave any of the Folks here you kick against a Good Word of Edification or Exhortation ???...and I'm not talking about a :applause:...I'm talking about a Heart Felt Edification ???...Uh Huh...thats what I thought...NEVER!!!!...and you really expect a women here to Biblicly Submit to you ???...:ROFL:...Great Example...LORD have Mercy...XO
Jude -- women here should submit themselves to the Word of God - if they claim to be followers of that Word. I don't recall asking anybody to submit themselves to me. Generally speaking, I am not inclined to endorse or promote folks who are consistently in opposition to the Word of God. Just not my style. By now, you should be well aware of who I believe that group includes.
Please have a look at this thread from yesterday. There you will see my encouragment of two of the women here: http://www.christiandatingforfree.com/forum/forum_details.php?topic_id=18309&forum_sub_cat_id=10
I guess you will also presume to know what I do privately on this, too. Right Jude?
"If a verse or verses are presented, is the presenter convicting or is the Word of God doing the conviction? When I see a passage someone presents and I feel convicted by it, I don't blame the presenter, I blame myself for not obeying the Word of God"
IWA wrote: "You two may twist and pervert the plain COMMAND of God as much as you want. As, I have said this is a Jezebel spirit. Carry on in open rebellion. "
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There are so many commands of God that you violently violate throughout these threads, so again, you are not one that I answer to. I answer to God, and I am quite comfortable with how and what I present. If you don't like it, you can ignore it. In fact they have a forum for you...it's called 'Ask a Guy'.
I am not required to sit quietly and be ridiculed, mocked, taunted, etc or to sit and watch others face this type of bullying.
I've noticed that your posts on a thread change when any counterpoint is made...your twist on your opinions are just that and you're entitled to them however right or wrong they may be.
...When was the last time you or Donna gave any of the Folks here [[[ you kick against ]]] a Good Word of Edification or Exhortation ???...and I'm not talking about a :applause:...I'm talking about a Heart Felt Edification ???...Uh Huh...thats what I thought...NEVER!!!!...and you really expect a women here to Biblicly Submit to you ???......Great Example...LORD have Mercy...XO
*** Do I really need to be more specific here...:rolleyes:...:glow:...:winksmile:...since when have you KICKED against MsMarvel or mcubed ???...:laugh:....You know what folks Im refering to...however if you need a Ata-Boy...Good Job...:applause:...now try applying that to the others here...is that to much to ask ????...I think not...
Psa 18:2 The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.
Lam 3:24 The LORD is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him.
Hbr 13:6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.
