Thread: Apostasy, the most dangerous sin! What is it exactly?
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Apostasy, the most dangerous sin! What is it exactly?
Posted : 3 Apr, 2009 01:36 PM
Hi Everyone,
Do you know what Apostasy is or the nature of it? There is only one definition for this word and it cannot be changed, modified or altered because it may not suit one's theological belief. For a Christian this is the most dangerous sin as this one sin will cause a Christian to "forfeit" their salvation forever with no hope of regaining it back.
2Thess2:3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless THE FALLING AWAY comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, NKJV
The term "Falling Away" is the word we get Apostasy from. The Greek word is Apostasia.
G646
apostasia pronounced ap-os-tas-ee'-ah
Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), ("apostasy"): - falling away, forsake.
G647
apostasion pronounced ap-os-tas'-ee-on
Neuter of a (presumed) adjective from a derivative of G868; properly something separative, that is, (specifically) divorce: - (writing of) divorcement.
In essence this is describing a Christian divorcing themselves from Christ. Divorcing... from... THE Faith. Just as you cannot divorce someone you are not married to you cannot divorce yourself from Christ unless you are already IN Christ. You cannot "Fall Away" FROM the Faith unless you already had the Faith to Fall Away from. Are you seeing this?
The interesting thing about Apostasy is that a NON-believer cannot be one. Only a true Born Again Believer, i.e. Christian can commit this particular act/sin.
According to Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, "Apostasy" is defined as "the determined willful rejection of Christ and His teachings BY a Christian Believer [Heb. 10:26-29; John 15:22]. This is different from false belief, or error, which is the result of ignorance."
The nature of apostasy requires that one be a believer first, then turn away from God.
So as we can see clearly from the Greek the word Apostasy has one specific meaning and by the way, you cannot change the root meaning of any Greek word. It is what it is irregardless of ones theological belief.
This one word alone refutes the dangerous teachings of Once Saved Always Saved theology as well as Calvinism.
Apostasy, the most dangerous sin! What is it exactly?
Posted : 9 Apr, 2009 10:57 AM
Walter,
I think you're the one who may not understand what I've written in defining apostasy. I really don't think a fair thinking person would misunderstand what I've posted as being unclear or confusing. The word apostasy in the Greek, Hebrew, Latin, or English means the same, to depart, stand away from, separate, or divorces from(as is clearer for you), but is just as I have defined in my post.
An apostate is a person who stands away from, or abandons, or moves away from what one believes for another belief whether its faith, political party, relationship with, or principles of such.Therefore, when this happens the person has committed apostasy in the sense of the meaning of the word. As maybe you can only understand the word that apostasy is akin to (like, compared to, the same as) divorce. Wouldn't it go to reason that one cannot DIVORCE or stand away from, or abandon, or separate from, or reject, or defect from one's faith or a person unless he/she has been associated with the person or married to the person or faith or belief system?
C'mom, Walter, connect the dots of the meaning of the word, as well as the scriptures. How can you divorce a person in a marriage or relationship, if you've never been associated or in closeness with that person, or relationship or belief system? Therefore, yes, Paul is speaking about those Christians who are of weak faith and I have characterized them and reasons why they will commit apostasy in my post, as being the ones who will move away from the faith and believe the lie, many for the reasons I have posted. Just as many are doing today, because they are not gorunded and rooted in the Word of God in spirit and truth.
I have no argument with this, the bible isn't written to unbelievers, its written for the believers, a guide, a safety manual for our keeping. This is why Paul gives out all those warning to those churches, and to us, to stand steadfast in God's word, and to be aware of false doctrines, and to be watchful, and to study, and search the scriptures to see if what is being taught lines up with the word of what God says and teaches. This is also why God has placed in the churches those minisiters who are to teach sound doctrine according to God's Word of truth and not their own, as Paul so states in Ephesians chapter 4, to equip the saints with sound doctrine for the work of the ministry, so that the saving souls with the truth and the gospel of Jesus Christ will be known in the church and land. And for the strengthening each other the saints of God with the word of God, until we ALL come into agreement in the faith ,and the knowledge and fullness of the truth about Jesus Christ. So that we will not be tossed to and fo with every wind of false doctrine that comes our way that sounds good, feels good, looks good, but is a lying spirit of the devil.
Those who believe the lie of the false doctrine will be those who are not grounded in the truth of the word or faith, and will commit apostasy which is to say... divorce, stand away from, move out of, abandon, disaffiliate with, defect, fall away from the truth of Jesus Christ and the faith, they know to be truth. But the author also says in Hebrew chapter 6, that it is IMPOSSIBLE for those who have really tasted, drank, eaten of the word of truth to defect or commit apostasy.
However, and IF by chance one who has experienced all the fullnes and goodness of God's amazing grace, does defect or stand afar, or divorce the truth he/she has received for the lie of a false doctrine or teahcings of a false teachers... it would be IMPOSSIBLE to restore such a one, because, he/she has trampled the blood of His Son Jesus Christ under his/her feet, curcified Jesus to the cross all over again, and has no regards to the sacrifice suffering death of Jesus on the cross. Nevertheless, if you continue to read, the writer also lets us know that the decision to restioe such a one will totally depend on God and His mercy... not man's thoughts or opinions. We are also told in James to seek to restore those who are in fault, people commit apostasy out of ingorance of the truh as I psoted, so I think God's mercy and grace will indeed cover a multitude of sins in such a case...
It must be understood that Paul is speaking about a both a strong christian grounded in the word of truth, and the weak christain who isn't grounded in the word of truth. It is IMPOSSIBLE for the strong chirstian to commit apostasy because he/she stays in the word of God day and night searching, praying, and studying the scriptures. Whereas the weak christian only reads the bible when there are problems in their life, and is not spending time with God in prayer or reading or studying... therefore, when another doctrine or as Paul says , another gospel comes along, they are quick to jump on the bandwagon because it makes them feel good, and does not correct or rebuke, challenge their faith, or require change in their life style, and agrees with their sinful ways, it blinds them into darkness from the truth and makes everything they do acceptable. There is no godly spiriutal commitment of faith or dedication or a serious form of inner spiritual belief. Faith that is seen isn't faith. But is of/by works. Anything that brings faith because of your works is not true faith, its sin!
So yes, apstasy. in simple words, only means to divorce, or defection, or reject, or disassociate from a person or relationship, or belief. And this can be only committed by a person who has been associated with said person, belief, relationship. Otherwise how can there be a divorce or standing away from, or defection, or separation from if you've never been connected with or to another person or relationship....
Apostasy, the most dangerous sin! What is it exactly?
Posted : 9 Apr, 2009 11:03 AM
BTW, Walter, what your books say means nothing if there is no spiritual application of what God is saying or understanding.
I think Jesus says it best, when he says, in that day whne many will come before Him trying to explain thier works the THINK they have done for the kingdom and God's glory. Jesus say, He will say Depart from me you workers of wickedness, I NEVER KNEW YOU! Noitce He doesn't say, I once knew you, but I NEVER KNEW YOU. WHY, He never knew them? because what they were doing wasn't for their glory but for their own, and the gospel message they preached and taught was for vain glory and gain...
Apostasy, the most dangerous sin! What is it exactly?
Posted : 9 Apr, 2009 11:52 AM
The Greek Word Apostasy...
Apo means to move away from...
stasis means standing or state of change.
Therefore we have the Greek word apostasia broken down to its correct meaning, which means to move away from, or from change standing with, defection from, forsake, depart from... those who commit apostasia move away from the faith and the truth of our Lord Jesus Christ...
Walter, you must understand that the Greek words you find in your books are no different that the Greek words found online, or in my Greek dictionary. Here is a great article for those who are interested, I just found online.
Apostasy, the most dangerous sin! What is it exactly?
Posted : 9 Apr, 2009 01:57 PM
Ella,
I guess you do not know how to answer questions in a short manner like it was requested of you.
I have clearly and previously already demonstrated the definition of Apostasy. Your re-explanation has not altered what I said but only confirmed it. But what you have done is grossly misinterpreted a passage of scripture.
You said: But the author also says in Hebrew chapter 6, that it is IMPOSSIBLE for those who have really tasted, drank, eaten of the word of truth to defect or commit apostasy.
However, and IF by chance one who has experienced all the fullnes and goodness of God's amazing grace, does defect or stand afar, or divorce the truth he/she has received for the lie of a false doctrine or teahcings of a false teachers... it would be IMPOSSIBLE to restore such a one, because, he/she has trampled the blood of His Son Jesus Christ under his/her feet, curcified Jesus to the cross all over again, and has no regards to the sacrifice suffering death of Jesus on the cross.
WALTER: What you may not realize Ella is that the above comments of yours are contradictory. On one had you misinterpret the scripture to say that it is impossible for a Christian to commit Apostasy and then in the next paragraph you say ...but if they do....blah blah blah. Which is it? If a Christian cannot commit Apostasy then they cannot commit Apostasy, no exceptions. Your logic is seriously flawed.
Let's look at the scripture pertaining to this and demonstrate where you erred. By the way, I have addressed this with you before on another thread and you failed to respond and address your error. This is very typical of you Ella. Are you going to change and finally address your errors that are pointed out to you?
Heb 6:4 For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,
6 and then fell away, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO RENEW THEM AGAIN unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the land which hath drunk the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them for whose sake it is also tilled, receiveth blessing from God:
8 but if it beareth thorns and thistles, it is rejected and nigh unto a curse; whose end is to be burned. ASV
I used the ASV translation because I thought it would be less confusing for you so you could better understand what the verse says. The verse does not say that it is impossible to defect or commit Apostasy as you claim,.... but it clearly states that it is impossible to be renewed AGAIN unto repentance AFTER a person has fallen away....that is...committed Apostasy.
Do you see your error in interpretation Ella?
Do you see the difference in application because of this?
Can you answer these questions honestly without the typical tap dance to avoid admission of your error?
ELLA: Nevertheless, if you continue to read, the writer also lets us know that the decision to restioe such a one will totally depend on God and His mercy... not man's thoughts or opinions.
WALTER: Please show us where Paul says that Ella? That is not even addressed in this passage whatsoever as you claim. In fact the scripture clearly states that it is impossible to restore such a person.
ELLA: We are also told in James to seek to restore those who are in fault, people commit apostasy out of ingorance of the truh as I psoted, so I think God's mercy and grace will indeed cover a multitude of sins in such a case...
WALTER: Sorry Ella but that is simply not the truth. James never addresses any restoration of a person who has committed Apostasy as it is impossible to do that. Once a Christian has committed that sin then they have forfeited their salvation for all eternity without hope or restoration. The verse you might have in mind in James is this one below but it is not talking about a Christian who has committed Apostasy, but a Christian who has wondered from the right path and is headed towards Apostasy.
Jas 5:19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.NKJV
Here is another verse to help harmonize and clarify the meaning. John is also addressing the same scenario as James. This is one way we learn how to harmonize scriptures to get their fuller meaning and application.
1John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin WHICH IS NOT UNTO DEATH he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
The sin..."WHICH IS NOT UNTO DEATH" that John is referring to is the sin "Apostasy". Why? Because there is no hope for a person who was a Christian and commits Apostasy. Once salvation is forfeited is is lost forever and cannot be regained.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant BY WHICH HE WAS SANCTIFIED a common thing, and INSULTED THE SPIRIT OF GRACE?
30 For we know Him who said, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY," says the Lord. And again, "THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE."
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
This is called blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. It is unpardonable according to Jesus. Apostasy is unpardonable.
Apostasy, the most dangerous sin! What is it exactly?
Posted : 9 Apr, 2009 09:27 PM
For those of you who are interested in growing into a deeper spiritually walk, and in God's knowledge, His wisdom, and His understanding of His word in the Bible through the power of the Holy Spirit. And you do not have access to Study Bibles, Bible Resource Books or Reference Bibles, Dictionaries, Commentaries, or Bible Concordances to help you.
Please take a trip over to these two sites. You too, will find what you seek in the Word for a better knowing of scriptures for your studies and personal spiritual growth in understanding the Bible.
www.Studylight.org/com
Here on this site are many Bible references and resources. The commentaries are by theologians from the 1400 to 1600's, who have interpreted and translated God's Word, book by book, chapter by chapter, and verse by verse. There are also several old Bibles as the Genevan Study Bible from printed in 1560, with commentaries on certain books and scriptures. The King James Bible was printed in 1611.
Here you will also find commentaries by great theologians such as Clarke, Barnes, Darby, Henry, Luther, Wesley, Gills, Scofield and many others. Some commentaries are in detail and others are not, spend time seacrhing the word along with your Bible.
Once you're on the site just click on any name and it will lead you to the books of the Bible, click on the book you seek and then the chapter and you're there. To your left of the page you will find other Bible Recources.
Here is another great site as well, and it offers Bible resources and references, and other information, topics, and commentaries, etc. Here you can do a search of a word, and there is most often a study or articles on the word or topic you seek, as wel as in the Greek, Hebrew,etc.
www.Bible.org
ENJOY your Bible Study. And may you gain knowledge, wisdom, and understanding in the Word of God...Then come back on the board, and post what you've learned in the scripture using the Greek, Hebrew, Latin, and English words that are used in the Bibles in translating and interpreting God's divine truths... :excited: :glow::applause::dancingp::peace: out!
Apostasy, the most dangerous sin! What is it exactly?
Posted : 10 Apr, 2009 12:23 AM
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Excellent websites for your Bible study of scriptures and God's Words, and word meanings in the Greek and Hebrew translations. All you need to do is know how to READ...
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Apostasy, the most dangerous sin! What is it exactly?
Posted : 10 Apr, 2009 04:24 PM
Ella,
You are not fooling anyone by the method and reason for you posting what you did on this particular thread. It is nothing more than an underhanded attempt to ridicule me. People have left this board because of your bad "unrepentant" unchristianlike behavior.
You said: "Here you will also find commentaries by great theologians such as Clarke, Barnes, Darby, Henry, Luther, Wesley, Gills, Scofield and many others. Some commentaries are in detail and others are not, spend time seacrhing the word along with your Bible."
WALTER: Great theologians? LOL According to who? You? Scofiled and Darby taught very bad theology and in fact John Nelson Darby, though correct in Pre-Millennial thinking, is the inventor of some bad theology called Traditional Dispensationalism, which is the foundation of the False Doctrine called the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
Cyrus Scofield followed in Darby's footsteps along with many so called great theologians.
Mat 15:14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch."
The Scofield Referencee Bible has caused many Christians to believe in False Doctrines. His personal life would lead one to believe he was a wolf among the sheep.
Matthew Henry, who no doubt loves our Lord, was a Calvinist and so his commentaries are very biased in favor of Calvinism aka "Reformed Theology" which is a False Teaching. Not a good source for biblical studies.
Clarke was a Calvinist
Gills was a Calvinist
Luther wrote some ok stuff but was also Amillenial. That is a false doctrine. His life story as a Christian has a lot to be desired.
Barnes does have some decent commentaries as he was not a Calvinist, but he was also an Amillenial and that part is not good.
So Ella would have people believe these so called "great theologians" are good reference sources. How sad! This perhaps explains why she is unable to properly defend her positions and when confronted with obvious errors of interpretation, she fails to answer the questions put forth to her not just from me but from others as well. After all.... how could she possibly be wrong since she studies these so called great theologians.
Mat 15:14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch." NKJV
Col 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. NKJV
Apostasy, the most dangerous sin! What is it exactly?
Posted : 10 Apr, 2009 04:51 PM
Geee, Walter... I'm not known to take time out to respond to such rambling. But, I refuse to allow this one to pass me by. Thus, I must say, You're rather insolent in your speech toward me, aren't you???...
Walter, I'm so sorry, but I was unaware that YOu had written rules for the board that forbid me from posting bible resources and/or references on a thread that YOU had/have started.:excited:
I am also sorry, but I didin't know that YOU were in such great power as OWNER or CO-OWNER, and/or MODERATOR in charge of this dating site, which would warrant you such AUTHORITY to tell me or anyone (for that matter), in order not to hijack a thread YOU start, I should start my own... I really didn't know that when a member of this forum started a thread, another member( as in I), needed permission from the person (you) who started it, to post related information. Nor did I know it was the responsibility of the person(you) who starts a thread to safe guard it against hijackers (me). I'm so sorry, but I reaaally didn't knoooow this information until you spoke it.:excited:
Nevertheless, since I'm on this, you have need to know that the bible references, and sites for the commentaries, and other bible resources have EVERYTHING to do with this topic, and any other topic YOU or anyone else start on this board. In fact, anyone who is interested can now search for themselves on those sites, the Greek and Hebrew words, and the commentaries on APOSTASY found in 2 Thessalonians chapter 2: verse 3-4, or they can search for any topic on this forum. What a marvelous learning to read what theologians who have written and interpreted scriptures and translated the bible have to say. This also enables others to confirm whether or not what YOU or anyone speak is true.
Maybe that's your real problem Walter, with me posting the resources, now others can seacrh out the truth for themselves. And low and behold, having such resources and commentaries prevents YOU from always telling everyone else their views, thoughts, and opinions on a topic are wrong, except your own. Now they too, can search out the Greek and Hebrew, Latin, and English words and commentaries of interpretation and translations for themsleves. I, personally, think that is just wonderful!
So yes, it has lots to do with this topic... but, I guess you were blinded to that, and didn't know that... just as I didn't know that you have authority over threads you start on this forum, as to tell me where and what I can and cannot post.
Walter, I know its difficult for you to be found wrong in anything, and to be challenged, and you enjoy thinking you have the know-all, and you love having power and being in control, and being in authority, and that's ok... but you can't have the things over me, I'm sorry. But wait!... i've got a word from the Lord for you... God has a plan of hope for prideful sure-fire people as yourself. Its call brokenness...
Also, Walter, please know that I refuse to respond anymore to any of your rash words toward me. You see, To ramble back and forth with you, only lowers my esteem... plus, as it is written, it will only make you feel higher than you ought about yourself.
Have a great evebing Walter... God loves you, and guess what?... so do I...:peace: out!
