Thread: falling out of Gods grace, commiting suicide, sinners of the bible
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falling out of Gods grace, commiting suicide, sinners of the bible
Posted : 1 Mar, 2009 03:51 PM
"The word says, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is UNFORGIVEABLE, will not be forgiven says Jesus, and I think it means just that!... no matter how you pray. The word say that any one that if a person falls away from the turh of the gspel and the doctrine of Jesus Christ, who once confessed Jesus, and they trun to another gospel, no matter how you pray for that person it will be impossible to restore that person again or bring them back to repentance, seeing that they have crucified for themsleves, Christ again on the cross and put Him to shame. In otherwords made God a liar. Hebrews chapter 6." etcallhome in another topic.
i have to disagree... there are many who have fallen away from the truth and the doctrine of Jesus Christ and have fallin for other another false belief... i am one.. when i was younger about 16 i accepted Jesus as my savior, went to church quite a bit, and i believed myself a christian... but as i got older i fell away from his truths and doctrine, and i fell into the false belief, that i could party and act how ever i liked and do what i want, and still be considered a christian... i basicly rejected jesus and i didnt even know it, but because God never stopped loving me, and i was sealed in him, i was slowly convicted over time... i felt ashamed...
i fell in and out of Gods grace like at least 30 times... every time i did, i thought that God didnt love me. according to the arminian view, God loved me, he loved me not, he loved me, he loved me not, he loved me, he loved me not. i was saved, i was saved not, i was saved, i was saved not, and finally i was saved(for now). that dont make sense... who saved me? Jesus? or myself... according to the arminian view it was myself. it was i that accepted god, thus saving myself... and it was i that jumped out of Gods hand, thus damning myself... and on and on and on. that dont make sense at all... God always loved me, and everytime i fell out, it was him that brought me back... in the back of my mind i had this nudge that turned into a push...
also i dont believe that commiting suicide is a damnable sin... people say this because they believe that if you commit suicide, you cant ask for Gods forgiveness, thus your damned to hell. well, then if thats the case you better make sure you havent forgotten to pray for any sins before you die, and just hope you dont sin 5 seconds before you die... do you ask for forgiveness right after you sin? you might want to start now if you havnt... dont put off untill, bed time to pray for any sins you have commited. you might not make it untill then...
you see, Jesus died for ALL of the sins, commited in the past, present and the future... your sins have already been forgiven... do you not think that Jesus is capable for forgiving a sin untill its actually commited... if God is all knowing, then he definitly can forgive you of a sin before you even commit it... if your human mind can grasp this, God forgave you before you were born... before the beginning of time he forgave you. Just like grace through the Death of Jesus was planned out before the beginning of time. God doesnt react to anything... you dont sin, and then he reacts by forgiving you. no he already was way ahead of you. Gods plan for salvation was not a plan he made after realizing how hopeless we were. it was planned out from before the beginning. God didnt react to soddom and gomorrah... he already knew about them, and already had a plan. he also knew abraham would plead for Soddom and Gomorrah, and his plan was the same...
we have stop bringing god down to our human understanding of things. so if your a christian, and you commit suicide (which there shouldnt be any reason), God has already forgiven you of that sin. again, this is not an excuse to commit suicide. i thought of only one example in which i would commit suicide. i have heard how soldiers will carry a pill, incase they get captured, they will take it to kill himself, so he avoids torture, which can very well convince him to give away information which would cause harm to his fellow soldiers, not to mention they would most likely kill him after they got all the information out of him.
i also know someone who relative commited suicide because of the extreme emount of pain he was dealing with, and he was dieing anyways. but he hurried the process... he wasnt a christian, but i can see how a christian can sin in that sense.
also i always hear about these sins that if you commit you wont go to heaven. like if you commit murder, or if you have an affair. if you commit these sins you fell out of Gods grace.
anyone notice that almost all of the hero's in the bible commited these sins? Abraham had 3 wives and some concubines. obviously this wasnt a "one time" kind of deal, by todays standards of what makes you saved or not, abraham went to hell.
also David had lusted after another mans wife, and practicly murdered the man to obtain her. and David had 8 wives i think. solomon have many wives and was even lead astray into idol worship, because of it. Moses murdered an egyptian slaver, before being chased out of egypt. jacob schemed to get his fathers blessing. Samson killed out of vengence. none of the hero's of the bible were perfect, except for Jesus. He is the true hero. paul called himself the king of all sinners. paul even said that what he wants to do he does not do, and what he doesnt want to do, he does. and he says "i know that nothing good live in me, that is, in my sinful nature"- the way some christians talk now days would have you think if you lived just like these guys did, you would go to hell.
the awesome thing is that all of these people in the bible were still loved by God. God forgave them of those sins, and he can forgive anyone of those same sins.
we need to not think we understand everything in the bible. or even understand most of it. i act like i do, but i know i dont understand even a little bit. i am always seeing something that presents a problem, and i dont know how to solve it. so i google and i google, and of course i pray.
falling out of Gods grace, commiting suicide, sinners of the bible
Posted : 3 Mar, 2009 08:36 AM
we need to not think we understand everything in the bible. or even understand most of it. i act like i do, but i know i dont understand even a little bit. i am always seeing something that presents a problem, and i dont know how to solve it. so i google and i google, and of course i pray.
Just in case you did not understand my last comment this is to verify. I do understand and I have thought the same things as this. I am not trying to purge those who have a very different understanding but, I think in some way in our faith we all agree in Christ. I appreciate any thoughts to a good believer but we do not always have the same understandings in the way we interputed the bible but we do agree that Jesus is who came (was born) and willing to die for our sins. Taken the penalty of our sins and rose again for us to know he has forgiven us "HE LIVES". "Repent and believe" and live *walk withTRY TO BE just like Jesus we are the sheep we follow the Good Shepard. We are in his green pastures that lead to still waters. Amen as a believer I Love you in Christ God bless and Pray for peace in Jerulseum (I did not use my spell chk so please bare with the spelling and grammer) bluereyes
falling out of Gods grace, commiting suicide, sinners of the bible
Posted : 3 Mar, 2009 01:56 PM
"Although some don't go into as great detail as others"- Etcallhome
haha i am overwhelmed with bible scholars and links! ;). I dont get much time out of the day to do all this, and usually this is why i dont respond right away and my posts are kind of sloppy. i may check into them, usually i am interested in science and the bible and apologetics concerning so called "contradictions in the bible" this calvinist and arminian think is a recent interest... and i have noticed people can easily say "look at all those contradictions!" concerning the 2 beliefs. thats why i think it makes way more sense to think of it like "we can but we wont" supposed to "we cant". i think most of those verses supporting the arminian view, if not all are basicly Gods way of saying "you cant use the calvinist view as an excuse to sin" he is warning "if you do these things, you are not a christian, but if you are a christian, you wont do these things." maybe a way to weed out the fakes from the real deal. the christians will take the warnings and WILL follow them, but the fakes will be weeded out.
"oil, criso can come up with... there are just some sins... forgiveness from God ain't happening..... And people had better realize these things and start repenting of their sins, before it come to those sins God will not forgive. God's love is for real and He is love, and it is His divine nature to love... but He doesn't play game nor soft-shoe His Word for you, me or anyone else. He does tolerate sin, and refuses to allow anyone to frustrate His grace, and trample under foot His love or the integrity and works of His Son..."--ETcallhome
its these sins that lead to death i believe, that one who is commiting them is unaware... non-christians are unaware and so they commit the sins that lead to death. a true christian will not commit these sins. the holy spirit works through the christian, and brings him to repentence. if this isnt true, give me the list of unforgivable sins.
falling out of Gods grace, commiting suicide, sinners of the bible
Posted : 3 Mar, 2009 02:08 PM
is there a limit to how much i can post? i have about 4 more paragraphs to post, and i keep trying, but they arent showing up... maybe i should try new topic
