Now concerning spiritual gifts (in thr KJ, the word gifts is italised, that being due to the fact that it is an added word..the word used, i.e. in the Greek is "pneumatikos" better translated "spiritual matters") brethren I would not have you ignorant (god would not have us ignorant of spiritual matters)".
verse 4 "Now (when?..NOW) there are diversities of gifts but the same spirit. and there aredifferences of Administrations, but the same spirit. And there are diversities operations but it is the same God which worketh (i.e. energizes) in all.
verse 7 "BUT (as in contrast to the above, verses 4- 7) the MANIFESTATION of the spirit (God's spirit in us, the risen lord Jesus Christ, Christ in us) is given to every man to profit withal.
verse 8 "For to one (Here is where the problem is, in the Greek this reads "to each one") is given by ("through") the spirit the word of wisdom to another (again, same word just written about, it is "to each one") the word of knowledge by the same spirit to another one (again, same word, "to each one") faith (the manifestation of faith, i.e. pistis, believing but this is believing based on the word of knowledge, i.e. that that mountain can be moved, for example) by that same spirit to another (again, same word "to each") the gifts of healing (healing is ALWAYS a gift) by the same spirit to another (again, same word "to each) the working of miracles to another (again, same word "to each) prophecy (specificallly, "forth telling" not the prophecy spoken by someone who has the enabling ministry of a "prophet/prophetess") to another (again, same word "to each") discerning of spirits to another divers (again,same word "to each", note that divers is in italics, an added word...the concept here is that every one can speak in tongues) to another (again, same word, "to each") interpretation of tongues
verse 11 BUT (as in contrast to the above) all (this all is the all without exception, not the all without distinction) these worketh ("are energized") that one and selfsame spirit dividing in the Greek "distributing") to every man (man and woman) severally as he will (that is not God, he, the man or the woman who desires to operate the manifestations, a choice of free will.
Michale, I love you as well, but I must correct you in what you have said. We, cannot manifest not one things spirutal that comes from God as pertainging to the gift. Of course, there are those who do, and say the speak in tongues but theses tongues or whatever they are speaking most are NOT OF GOD NOR BROUGHT FORTH BY THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD.
Firstly, it must be understood that the "TONGUES" that are spoken about in the book of Acts were languages as Luke poiints out the apostles spoke in the languaes of those who heard them ministering the word of God. They WERE NOT TONGUES no one understood. This is where many people get all lost and confused and claim they speak in tongues, but what they are soeaking has NOT been manufested by the Holy Spirit of God, but indeed TONGUEs they have manifested on their own, and in many cases of the devil.... PERIOD!
There are those who do speak in tongues (languages) as manifested by the Holy Spirit, and those who do speak are speaking a language of a people who understands what is being said. Many people who are in ignorance speak in the church and Paul says this is wrong, because no one understands what is being said , so when this happens, this lets me know the person who is speaking in this so-called TONGUE as they call it, is not speaking a word that the Holy Spirit has given. Because number one, the person is in disobedience of what God has written, and number two, there is not one person in the church who understands what is being said including the person (s) who is speaking, and the word has already been ministered by the pastor who speaks the tongue/language of the people who are in the church. So what;s the purpose of the spekaing in TONGUEs in the church if everyone speaks english,a nd someone is speaking in French, this was the problem with the people at Corinth and paul had to rebuke them. The Corinthian church had all the gifts, and they were using them in the church amongst themselves as a show off. So, I ask you will God cause you to disobey His given word? NO! So when there is disobediences and a claim that its of the Holy Spirit, whose lying?... this is a lie of the person's own imagaination and of the devil, and IS NOT OF GOD, because it is in disobedience of the written word.
Michale sweeheart, To show that you are off course, with all of this, you nor can anyone teach anohterperson how to speak in tongues or do any of the things that belong to the works of the Holy Spirit. Man cannot manifest God's spiritual gift and many are trying which i=s of the devil, the spirutal gifts are given out by the Holy Spirit according to HIS PERFECT WILL TO THOSE HE HAS CHOSEN. Now you may can teach me tongues as in another language such as Spanish or French or German, or Piglatin which are tongues, but if you are presenting to me that I can learn to speak in tongues as manifested by the Holy Spirit, this is not of God. And if this is where you and Bob learn to speak in whatever tongue you say you gys speak in, well for sure its of the devil becasue one would have to ask who the devil are you ministering to.. each other? Plus, you don;t have a clue as to what you are saying. The apostles knew what they were saying, and so didi thos ewho heard them speak in their OWN LANGUAGES!
The scripture says as HE, which means as the Holy Spirit Himself will...or desires, not as man or woman will, or desires. This is to say that as the Holy Spirit desires HE gives each person He has chosen the gift/ability to speak in a language that that person has never spoken in his/her lfie, and to another person HE gives the gift of being able to interpret different languages the person has never spoken or studied. This is Bible... this is why I posted the whole chapter 12, written as Paul wrote it without the numbers, there is no way you can misinterpret what it being said here. This whole chapter is speaking about the gifts of the Holy Spirit that are given out for the works of the ministry. If God sent you somewhere to a people who could not speak english, and you could not speak the language of the people as the Book of Acts indicates was the case with the apostles, the Holy Spirit would empower you with the language of the people to minister to the people about Jesus Christ unto salvation, and you would able to speak their language. Everywher the apostles went they were able to speak in the same language of the people, who spoke a different languages. This was the purpose of the different gifts of tongues (languages)
Its very plain and simple, but you as well as many others try to read more into all of this than is necessary, and manifest your own tongue (language and say its f the Holy Speak when its not.. Plus, those who speak in tongue as they say, what is it profiting? NOT ONE THING, because as Paul say you are only edifying yourself and no one is getting saved by hearing you speak in a language not even yourself understand. And another thing, you're saying the same thing over and over...hilalashanahibaestahondachakakon... ain't saying a single dog-gone word.:laugh:
But as Paul say the greatest spiritual gift you should covet is LOVE, because it never fails, languages will fade aways but LOVE ain't going no where.
What you have said below is so off course, I can only pray for God to open your understanding into the truth of His word.
Also, who told you you have free will? Where is the scipture passage that states such? God doesn't give man free will, He gives man free choice to choose whom he will serve, to know right from wrong, good from evil, But there is not one scripture passage wherein we are told God has given man free will, this would put man equal with God, and it ain't happening although man THINKDS he is equal with God, but he isn't and that's why many are going to hell in a wcker-basket and will burn a blaze. A perrson who thinks he/she has free will is a person who is disobedient and has made the choice to do it and have it their way and has become as buger king hamburger in disobedience. There is no such thing as man having free will. Prove it with scripture.
Thanks for the link, but I would rather have the Holy Spriit to link me up with everything and every spiritual gift He has chosen for me to have ...
Michale said: so, ET the bottom line is this: I know what I am talking about, when I say manifestations, its because the bible says manifestations, when the bible says "to each one" it means to each one, as in all the manifestations are available to every believer as he (the man or the woman) wills. and I don't mean on man's schedule, merely that they are available when given (speaking in tongues is always available, the rest, well, this is already too long to repeat what is written in the original post and expound on the "worship manifestations")...
Ella says: Michale, this is spiritually incorrect
(2) So, when you choose to want to learn how to speak in tongues ET, write me at my private box and I will send you some links on the how...until then, well its a waste of time to comment on what you think the bible says. The brain has only one purpose with regard to the bible to read it and remember it. The soul only has one purpose with regard to the bible, to exercise free will to believe it......the rest is a waste of time and a personal sin.
One other thing Michael, you know I have heard people speak in the so-called tongues in church, and they are shacking up ... and I have also heard homosexuals speak in this so-called tongues... so since God does not live in corruption, do you think He would allow His Holy Spirit to give the gift of languages (tongues) to someone who is a homosexul living in sin, or to a person who is living in adultery to speak in the church? What would these people have to say about God and they are living in sin?
everybody wants the spiritual gift of speaking in tongues... but nobody wants the spiritual gift of lving righteously, which is also a gift of the Holy Spirit.hmmmmm
Ella you do not hear homosexuals speak in so called tongues.
Whosoever that does not agree with acts 2:4 is wrong it is as simple as that, and to say acts 2:4 is the gift of tongues is just as wrong as reformed theology saying man can not respond to the word of God.
If you do not pray in tongues you have not received the Holy Spirit!!
JESUS COMMANDS, �LOVE ONE ANOTHER JUST AS I HAVE LOVED YOU!�
Ephesians 3:16-19: "I pray that out of His glorious riches He may strengthen you with power through His spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge--that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God."
Jesus commanded his disciples many times to obey the OT command �To **LOVE** your neighbor as yourself� and on the day before his atonement Jesus added a NEW command �To **LOVE** one another as I have **LOVED** you� and this was just one day before he laid down His life for His friends.
John 13:34: Jesus says, �A **NEW** command I give you: **LOVE** one another as I have **LOVED** you so you MUST **LOVE** one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples!!�
John 15:9-14: �As the Father has loved Me, so I have loved you. Now remain in My **LOVE**. If you obey My commands, you will remain in My love,,, My command is this:**LOVE** each other **AS I HAVE LOVED YOU**!!. Greater **LOVE** has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. You are My friends **IF** you do what I command!
I Peter 1:22,23: "Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the Truth so that you have sincere **LOVE** for your brothers, **LOVE** one another deeply, from the heart. For you have been born again through the living and enduring Word of God.�
God's Word further explains what this new **LOVE** is like in I Corinthians 13:2,4-8: If I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not **LOVE** I am nothing...**LOVE** is patient, **LOVE** is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. **LOVE** does not delight in evil but rejoices with the Truth. It always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. **LOVE** never fails!!"
John 14:23: Jesus says, �If anyone **LOVES** Me, he will obey My teaching, My Father will **LOVE** him, and We will make Our home with him.� He who does not **LOVE** Me will not obey My teaching.�
I John 2:3-5: �We know that we have come to know Him {Jesus} **IF** we obey His commands. The man who says, �I know Him,� but does not do what He commands is a liar, and the Truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys His Word, God's **LOVE** is truly made complete in him!!�
Matthew 28:19.20� Jesus commands, �Go and make disciples of all nations... teaching them to *OBEY EVERYTHING* I have commanded you!� {See I John 2:3-5}
EVERYTHING would also include all the other commands in God's inspired Word from Acts to Revelation as per 2 Timothy 3:16: 4:2: "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work...Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction.
Ephesians 4:15,16: �Speaking the Truth **IN LOVE**, we will in all things grow up into Him who is the Head, that is, Christ! From Him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up ***IN LOVE***, as each part does its work!�
If we really **LOVE** our brothers and sisters in Christ we will lovingly teach them to obey all the approximately 400 commands of the NT with **LOVE** in the hope of countless eternal rewards when Jesus comes with great power with all His angels.
Revelation 22:112: Jesus says,"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with Me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done!?
Matthew 16:27: Jesus says, For the Son of Man is going to come in His **FATHER'S GLORY WITH HIS ANGELS**{See Matt 24:30,31; 25:31-40 & 2 Thess 1:6-10}, and **THEN** He will reward each person according to what he has done."
Daniel 12:3: "Those who impart wisdom will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever!"
Jesus says in Rev 2:17; 3:4, 5, 21: �To him who overcomes...I will give a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it:rolleyes:He will walk with Me for he is worthy:rolleyes:... I will acknowledge his name before My Father and His angels.... I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem.....I will write on him my New Name... and I will give him the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.� :applause::angel::peace:
Wow ay to much to discuss on a point by point basis, i apologize for that, it is the case that I could do that.
Allow me to merely touch this last question of yours, speaking in tongues and being a homosexual, maybe that will bring a few things together. We were taking, discussing a bit of "the better way", see in my life there are periods where I am speaking in tongues, however not in fellowship with God, that would be exactly the same as being a homosexual practicing homosexuality and speaking in tongues...where that is addressed in in those verses hat refer to "being as sounding brass or tinkling cymbal", as in "I am nothing".
In other words, the manifestations profit me when operated, but they do not profit me when I am not in fellowship with God, yes they are operated, just no profit to me spiritually, my life in that state is shallow, exhibits unkindness to others, the bad stuff, the stuff that is the opposite of being a blessing to myself and others.
Does that help? Just for extra credit, I want to be honest with you...I have no ability to change you, to control you, to convince you, all I can do is hold forth the word of God. At best, I have the ability to "influence you", however it's your walk, your choice to believe it or not to believe it. Those really are the choices available. There is a third choice or a strategy I suppose and that is like that host of decisions that go something like this: waiting for the Lord to reveal it to you, sitting on the fence, being undecided..and so on..to me, the sitting on the fence choice has one very good plan of attack and that would be immersing yourself and researching it totally on your own.. have thrown out some Greek words and there are research tools available to you, so that is an option, you are highly educated and I feel a self learner, so I do respect you and I would love for you to take say just the first verse of Chapter 12...the pneumatikos part, spiritual matters and do a word search on every usage of it in the New Testament...as in see where it is used, what context it is used in...the details. If you do that, do feel free to contact me directly or like say a post of your own in this forum...I would be happy to read it.
Who is Bob ?..:rolleyes:...jus messin with ya...:winksmile:...We being Born of the HolySpirit DO have Spiritual Gifts...:yay:...some people more than others...Its all GOOD...xo
