Is this particular Scripture actually about Faith needing works,
in order to be genuine FAITH.
Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
This is an ancient question that still comes up and has no easy answer. Different traditions and denominations answer it differently and I wouldn't be surprised if more than one denomination split from the former one over this very question.
For Jews, we live by performing mitzvot (commandments.) But I'm not sure it'd be accurate to say we believe we must in the execution of our faith. I've often seen it stated that the best thing we can do to hasten the arrival of Moshiach is to do the commandments. I think it's also a matter of since no one knows when, it's better than sitting around twiddling your thumbs waiting and watching. :)
As to faith itself, I don't think the question is phrased properly. Can have you faith in whatever pleases you, but most would ask if we earn salvation through good works or faith alone. Again though, it depends on your denomination and thus is probably no absolute right answer. I would say simply that in a time when we tolerate sin, see it all around us, it's good to show the right way with our respective faiths if others see us doing what it says through good works.
We were all sinners and NONE of us could pay the price for our sins and still go to heaven.
We are not saved by works, but we are saved to works or we are not saved.
The greatest proof of that is Mathew 7. It talks about good and bad trees and their fruit which is our works.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven
If we are not living to serve God and do His will and not our own, we are not saved or going to heaven.
A succesful life is a surrendered life.
Remember Jesus cursed the fig tree simply because it had NO fruit.
God is NO fool. We can say Lord, Lord all we want, but if we don't act like it, our actions demonstrate what is in our heart. And God knows our heart.
satan loves to make us think that Jesus did it all and we can go on living as we please. he knows that is all he has to do to win and drag us to hell with him.
God made us with a free will and to love God is to surrender it to His will. That happens when we are truly born again to be made BACK into the image of God by having the mind of Christ.
It was not our bodies that were made in Gods image, but our souls before the fall. God is spirit and we must worship Him in spirit and truth. At the incarnation the Bible says Jesus was found in the form of a man.
We are born again by dying to our self and are no longer conformed to the world, but we are transformed by the renewing of our mind to have the mind of Christ.
If that really happens, how can we help but do Gods will or have good works because the Holy Spirit is residing in our soul leading us. And we submit to Him as a bride must.
Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
We must work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.
Do I have to explain that? Faith without works is dead or cursed like the fig tree. It doesn't exist.
I know what I am saying is the hard truth, but we are fighting an evil decieptful enemy that wins by subtle deception.
Consider this. Out of about 2 million Jews that wondered the desert for 40 years witnessing daily miricles, only 2 Joshua and Caleb had the faith to enter the promised land. How did they show it? They were willing to obey God and act in faith to take it. The others knew Gods power, but had NO faith to act by obeying God.
Unfortunately, the majority of professing Christians are just like them and will not enter the promised land of heaven, because they don't have the faith to obey God. satan has deceived them into the cult of easy-believism where they live for their own pleasure instead of to please God.
We need to understand, God is building the Kingdom of Heaven. It is a utopia. There can never again be rebellion or sin in heaven. He purged it once and for all when He cast Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels out. So we must be totally transformed to serve Gods will or we cannot be allowed in or we would destroy it.
Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments or prove it by your works.
We demonstrate we have been transformed or saved by our fruit or works in humility, fear, and trembling before a Holy God.
POIC, you called the play so finish it. You siad I was wrong so now you show me where it is that I am wrong. You bring forth the Greek to show me my error as to my comment on these passages.
And again, as pointed out, these passages are NOT ABOUT SALVATION how we are saved by having faith to believe in Christ. James is only asking a question for consideration of such that a person cannot be saved without doing something about that faith to believe unto salvation. Then he points out how it works by using Abraham being justified by his faith, but Abe could not be justified by just saying he had faith to belive in God, but Abe was justified when he got up off his hind part and did soemthing to prove his faith.
Jeff makes a good point. Read what he posted.
Again, there are different kinds of faith, we are saved by having faith alone to believe that God showed His marvelous love toward us through Christ unto salvation, and there is faith to believe that God will do as He said when we take action and do something about what we have faith in. Hebrews chapter 11, clearly explains all about faith in action.
So, POIC, its up to you to bring forth the correction as you have said you would do, and show me where I am wrong in my comment and understanding the difference in what I perceive what James is speaking about in these passages. You tell me what James is saying about that faith without works, or faith with works, since you say I'm wrong whether you explain this in the Greek or English, show me my error.
This is Jeff's comment: As to faith itself, I don't think the question is phrased properly. Can have you faith in whatever pleases you, but most would ask if we earn salvation through good works or faith alone. Again though, it depends on your denomination and thus is probably no absolute right answer. I would say simply that in a time when we tolerate sin, see it all around us, it's good to show the right way with our respective faiths if others see us doing what it says through good works.
Ella says: Therefore, POIC, is this the kind of faith James is speaking about in chapter 2, or just what is James or what. Even the demons believe and stand trembling, but they do not have saving faith. So is one would ask... if demons believe in God, and a person say he/she believes in God but does nothing about it by enacting his/her faith and knowledge of God, is this person worse off as the demons who also believe? So where is the faith to believe?
Again, faith is an action word, having faith and sitting around does not prove that a person has faith. Saints and sinners have faith, and as I've said God rains upon the saints and the sinner when there is faith ina ction, because God is a man of His word, and He says whosoever have FAITH and believe it IT meaning whatever that person's faith is established upon, IT shall be done.
It does not matter who rants and raves if there was one word to define faith as that that please God it would be action. Greek the bible gives example after of example.
Is this statement true.Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
NO!
If this were true,what happens when believers are inactive.Hmmm
Greek word for dead is:Nekros
The Original Word: νεκρός, ά, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: nekros
Phonetic Spelling: (nek-ros')
Short Definition: dead, a corpse
Definition: (a) adj: dead, lifeless, subject to death, mortal, (b) noun: a dead body, a corpse.
3498 nekr�s (an adjective, derived from nekys, "a corpse, a dead body") � dead; literally, "what lacks life"; dead; (figuratively) not able to respond to impulses, or perform functions ("unable, ineffective, dead, powerless," L & N, 1, 74.28); unresponsive to life-giving influences (opportunities); inoperative to the things of God.
3498 /nekr�s ("corpse-like") is used as a noun in certain contexts ("the dead"), especially when accompanied by the Greek definite article. The phrase, ek nekron ("from the dead"), lacks the Greek article to give the sense "from what is of death."
What is being asked is this.
Is faith without works a CORPSE.
Absolutely not.
Psalm 1:1-3
Psa 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
Psa 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Psa 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
Ephesians 2:10
Eph 2:10 for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God before prepared that we should walk in them.
In do time Yeshua will reveal the faith HE has given to his people.
An unnamed person is talking to James:
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
The unnamed person speaks:
The Greek says:
Show me your faith without works,
I will show you from out of ME
Yea will say someone Thou faith have and i works have,
show you me the faith of you without the works and, i thee
will show from the works of me the faith
Notice this person ask to see James' faith that has NO WORKS.
This person says:
From the WORKS OF ME,'The Faith'
This person makes no mention of Yeshua,Grace,empowered of the Holy Spirit to Good works.
This person says because they have works,that they have faith.
Is this true.
ABSOLUTELY NOT!
This Scripture is saying that the DEMONS are being strengthened by this unnamed persons statements.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
PIOC, you have serious need to understand scripture and what it is you read in your concorance and Bible lexicon.
Faith without owrks, which means doing something about that faith you say you have is indeed a dead corpose, there is no life in having faith if there is nothing ro prove that you have faith.
As James says, if a persons say they have faith, and I have works, then show me your faith without works, and I'll show you my faith by my works.
I don't think you understand the concept of faith or its different meanings.
And you still hae not shown me my error in what I have said about faith.
James says in verse 17, if you have faith and no works it is dead, if it is without works.
Example: if you desire a job, and you have faith to believe God will assist you in finding a job, you will not get a job UNLES you put forth an effort to get out and search for a job...
you cannot sit around the house and say you have faith God is going to get you a job, without first going in search for a job.
You cannot say you are going to buy a house, and sit on your behind and think God is going to bring a house to you if you are not getting out going in search of a house, and saving money for a house.
You cannot say that you are going to buy a car, and think God is going to bring you a car and you have faith to believe God is going to get you a car and you have not done not one thing to bring forth that car on your own, no money saved.
Faith is the substance (which means the ingredience, the action, or works whether through praying or saving your money for these things, or going in search of thses thngs) of things hoped for, and the evidence (meaning believing, knowing, confidence, and trusting in God that by your diligence and His word of truth that whatsoever you ask of Him if you believe without doubt, it will come to pass, giving thanks to Him before you recieve) this is the evidence of things not seen... because God is a man of His word, and if we say we have faith then we must be a people of our works to prove that faith.
Faith without works is dead, and works without faith is also dead.... that's WORD from the mouth of God.
Ha ! Ha ! Ha ! I have Faith that Trucker George / POIC will be In-Lightened..:purpleangel:...to the Understanding & Wisdom that the Scripture in its Context stating "Faith Without Works is DEAD"...is about FAITH IN ACTION/ Works...NOT Working to Get or Have Faith/Salvation...:rolleyes:...Sometimes Seeking Deeper Meanings to Simple Scripture is just Another Tactic the satan uses to Guide ya down another Dead End...xo
