"How long will you go about, O you backsliding daughter? for the Lord has created a new thing in the earth. "A woman shall/will compass/surround a man." Jeremiah 31
Many Bible scholars and theologians are confused as to what God is speaking here that" a woman will compass or surround a man." So what say you on this passage?
Here is what Adam Clarke (1762-1831) Methodist theologian has to say about this prophecy...
Verse 22. A woman shall compass a man
nekebah tesobeb gaber, "A weak woman shall compass or circumvent a strong man." This place has given much trouble to Biblical critics. By many Christian writers it is considered a prophecy of the miraculous conception of the holy virgin; but as I am sure no such meaning is in the words, nor in the context, so I am satisfied no such meaning can be fairly brought out of them. Houbigant thinks there is a small error in the text, i.e., teshobeb, shall return, and not tesobeb, shall compass.
This reading is found in two of Kennicott's MSS., and he contends that the passage should be read, "The wife shall return to her husband;" alluding to the conversion of the Jewish people, called above a backsliding daughter. This makes a good sense; but I do not see why this should be called a new thing in the earth. After all, I think it likely that the Jews in their present distressed circumstances are represented under the similitude of a weak defenseless female nekebah; and the Chaldeans under that of a fierce strong man, gaber, who had prevailed over and oppressed this weak woman.
But, notwithstanding the disparity between them, God would cause the woman-the weak defenseless Jews, to compass-to overcome, the strong man-the powerful Babylonians. And this the prophet says would be a new thing in the land; for in such a case the lame would take the prey. The context favours both these meanings. Dr. Blayney gives a sense very near to this: "A weak woman shall repulse a strong or mighty man." It is most likely a proverbial expression.
Where does it say that the old Covenant is OBSOLETE??
Jeremiah 31:22, 31: "A woman will surround a man." The NIV has this footnote "Or will go about seeking or will protect." In Jeremiah 31:1-30 God is talking about what will happen when Israel comes back from captivity in Babylon {Jer 31:23} Then in Jeremiah 31:31 we read : "The time is coming," declares the Lord, "When I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It will not be like the Covenant I made with their forefathers."
What is the New Covenant??
Hebrews 8:6-8,13: But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the Covenant of which he is a Mediator is SUPERIOR to the old one, and it is founded on better promises. For if there had been nothing wrong with the first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. But God found fault with the people and said, "The time is coming declares the Lord, when I will make a NEW COVENANT with the house of Israel...By calling this Covenant "NEW," He has made the first one ***OBSOLETE***; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
The point is that the quote in Jeremiah 31:22 that a woman shall surround a man with a NIV footnote "Or will go about seeking, or will protect" after Israel returns from the Babylonian captivity is really not that important since the old covenant is OBSOLETE and we are now under the New Covenant with new commands such as:
Ephesians 4:22-24: "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, His body, of which He is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything."
1 Timothy 2:11,12: A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent."
I Corinthians 33-35: "As in **ALL** the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."
However according to God's Word it is OK for a woman to teach a man in her home as per Acts 18:26: When Priscilla and Aquila heard HIM, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately."
And then ET made this brilliant comment:
"And since you have brought up these passages about women preaching in the church, but you have been unable to relate them to this prophecy by Jeremiah in 31:22, don't forget these are God's words not according to what Paul says, but according to what God declares that "A woman shall compass a man" and God overrules everything Paul and every man:rolleyes: has to say."{???????}
So Your exegesis is really brilliant ET. What you are saying here is that Jeremiah 31:22 as you interpret it; is God's Word and Paul's words in I Timothy 2:11,12 and I Corinthians 14:33-35 are not inspired by God since as you say "God overrules **EVERYTHING** Paul and *EVERY MAN* has to say." It is interesting to note that the 66 books of God's Inspired Word were all written by 40 MEN! :applause:
Rihard said: So Your exegesis is really brilliant ET. What you are saying here is that Jeremiah 31:22 as you interpret it; is God's Word and Paul's words in I Timothy 2:11,12 and I Corinthians 14:33-35 are not inspired by God since as you say "God overrules **EVERYTHING** Paul and *EVERY MAN* has to say." It is interesting to note that the 66 books of God's Inspired Word were all written by 40 MEN!
Ella siad: Richard Please do not misinterpret what I speak. I thought I made it clear that Paul lets us know in his writing when something to according to his thoughts, and of course, God approves, and he either says I siad, or he will say, The Lord, not I said such and such...
And yes, the prophecy that God gave out in the Old Tetsament stand and will always stand against whatever any mamn has to say... I never said what Paul wrote in his woritngs were not inspired by or of God, so don't go there with me. And yes, God overrules EVEYTHING Paul and everything mand has to say, and His word will never return back void... Again, Paul's writings about women must be understood spiritually according to the times of what was going on in the churches in the 1st century.
And you still have not presented any scrioptures wherein God said a woman is not to do as God leads her... if God gives he a word, then her job is to speak it. I agree God never called women to be heads of household either, but they are, and He never called women to be pastor of churches, but they are becasue men have forsaken the osition. And you cannot provide any scrioture wherein God has said a woman is not allowed to fulfil a position wherever God places her.
God is sovereign and He doesn't need you, me, Paul or anyone else telling Him what He can or cannot do.
He never changes, but He sure can change His word to fit His divine purposes, plans, and will when things are not going as He has ordaind them...He work and word will never fail, nor does He need man or woman or anyone to fulfill His objectives, He is God ALL by Himself... and if He can cause a donkey to speak His word, surley having a woman to speak when a man is not will to take the positionand,a nd He has already said the rocks will speka out if proper praise to His name do nt go forth... So He can do as He pleases without anyone permission or approval, so don't secodn guess God, nor misinterpet what I say, to may it sound and/or be as you would like. Read my comment it is not even close to what you are saying I said... you're misinterpreting and misunderstanding my pint and content of what I speak. And by the way, being a shepherd of a flock as a woman in not a new thing when consideringRachel was the first female shepherd tending her father's sheep because there was no available man around, And this was aginst the customs of the culture during this time. So there is nothing new under the sun, if one reads God's word. And when a woman is in minitsry in a positiion God has placed her, because there is no man, there ain't nothing you, I or anyone can say or do about it, but give God praise that His work is still going forth. Men in the 1st century church were diligent and took the lead role in everything, and many still do and especially men from other countries. So don't you forget where you live, and that we are living in the 21st century and you just can get a man to go shopping for food with or without his wife.:laugh:
I realzie you and some other may have a problem with women ministering God's word, but you must realize its not your word they minister, so if God has a propblem with it, let Him be the one to sit them down, just make sure you men who think otherwise are out doing your parts in the work of ministering God's word to the lost, and not your own...
God also has a problem with women being the head of their households, when He has placed in this positon, so what up with that? After all the marriage is symbolic to the church, isn't it?
OH, and btw, I respect the call upon River's life as a prophetess of the Lord, so if she has a divine word from the Lord while in church about a matter, and God calls upon her to speak, is she to send a note around to everybody in the congregation with her word from God on it or what? Or wiat until she gets home and send an email to the pastor? Or should she text her word from the Lord?.:ROFL:... or does she keep silent in the church and says nothing God has given her to speak, because Paul say, he did not allow women speak and they are to keep silent in the church? And today many men say this is to mean women are not allow to teach or preach or speak in the church... ludicrous!... I would think she would rather obey God than men... because many men themselves refuse to speak what God has given them to say from His holy owrd...
Also, I make older spiritually season men and women as my mentors. And an older lady once told me that yeah baby, woman are to submit to her OWN husbands... but she also told me to think about this... how can a woman submit to her husband, when the husband is not submitted to God? And God says her OWN husband not to any man in general, and the man had better be right with the Lord himself. And how can women learn or ask her own husband at home anything about the Bible or God's word when he does even know where to find Jesus wept, in the Bible..:laugh::toomuch:...
:ROFL: yes and no Bahira... its about all women in ministry, and Richard and other men who don't like the idea of women knowing and understanding God's word has He had revealed it to US, and think women are to be silent and not preach or etach God's word of truth, and that owmen are to sublit ot men, I guess:ROFL:... but his is not scripture becasue God said a women is to submit to her OWN HUSBAND, and I don't see nobody married to anybody on this forum:yay::laugh::ROFL:
Its also about Richard trying to give me a hard time, but he just don't EVEN know tha I am not a lush over kinda women who will settle for anything a man has to say without questioning him in the third degree...:dancingp::peace:
I Peter 3:1-6: "Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of their lives. Your beauty should not come from adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes {See I Tim 2:9,10} Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit. which is of great worth in God's sight. For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master!":peace::applause::rolleyes::yay:
Richard, why do you men always stop short of what God intructs the wife, and fail to include what God says to the husband. As I stated, ain't nobody married to anyone on this forum that I know of, so this doesn't even apply to the Jeremiah prophecy:laugh:
Anyway, since you failed to post what God speaks to the men who are husbands I will post for you.
I Peter chapter 3:verses 7; Likewise you husbands, live with your wives according to knowledge, giving honor to the wife, as to who is weaker than you are, and as being heirs TOGETHER of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered."
According Knowledge...This by its self speaks volumes to all men who are husbands... I have no need to post anyhting else regarding what God says to the husband... according to knowledge stands by its self:excited::laugh::peace:
Where does it say that the old Covenant is OBSOLETE??
Jeremiah 31:22, 31: "A woman will surround a man." The NIV has this footnote "Or will go about seeking or will protect." In Jeremiah 31:1-30 God is talking about what will happen when Israel comes back from captivity in Babylon {Jer 31:23} Then in Jeremiah 31:31 we read : "The time is coming," declares the Lord, "When I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It will not be like the Covenant I made with their forefathers."
What is the New Covenant??
Hebrews 8:6-8,13: But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the Covenant of which he is a Mediator is SUPERIOR to the old one, and it is founded on better promises. For if there had been nothing wrong with the first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. But God found fault with the people and said, "The time is coming declares the Lord, when I will make a NEW COVENANT with the house of Israel...By calling this Covenant "NEW," He has made the first one ***OBSOLETE***; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear."
The point is that the quote in Jeremiah 31:22 that a woman shall surround a man with a NIV footnote "Or will go about seeking, or will protect" after Israel returns from the Babylonian captivity is really not that important since the old covenant is OBSOLETE and we are now under the New Covenant with new commands such as:
Ephesians 4:22-24: "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, His body, of which He is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything."
1 Timothy 2:11,12: A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent."
I Corinthians 33-35: "As in **ALL** the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."
And then ET made this brilliant comment:
"And since you have brought up these passages about women preaching in the church, but you have been unable to relate them to this prophecy by Jeremiah in 31:22, don't forget these are God's words not according to what Paul says, but according to what God declares that "A woman shall compass a man" and God overrules everything Paul and every man has to say."{???????}
So Your exegesis is really brilliant ET. What you are saying here is that Jeremiah 31:22 as you interpret it; is God's Word and Paul's words in I Timothy 2:11,12 and I Corinthians 14:33-35 are not inspired by God since as you say "God overrules **EVERYTHING** Paul and *EVERY MAN* has to say." It is interesting to note that the 66 books of God's Inspired Word were all written by 40 MEN!
Apparently ET refuses to obey God's Inspired Words in 1 Timothy 2:10,11 and I Corinthians 14:33-35.
2 Timothy 3:16; 4:2-5: **ALL** Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work...Preach the Word; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men{And women} will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the Truth and turn aside to myths."
