Thread: Revelation 20: 7-8, An Amillennialist Problem
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Revelation 20: 7-8, An Amillennialist Problem
Posted : 26 Jun, 2011 07:38 AM
Revelation 20: 7-8, An Amillennialist Problem
When the Catholic, Calvinist and orthodox Lutheran amillennialists allegorize away Revelation 20: 1-8, there is some information in those verses that is lost, especially Revelation 20: 7-8. "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison. and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."
If, as the amillennialists say, the thousand years is an allegory for the entire period from the Cross until the appearing of Christ, then Satan would be released at the end of that period.
Or maybe an amillennialist would just ignore Revelation 20: 7-8.
There is a kind of abstract formula in scripture that would predict that Satan might be released at some point. Revelation 17: 11: "And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."
Man was created on the sixth day (Genesis 1: 26, 2:2), and the number of man in Revelation 13: 18 is said to be 666, or 6 repeated three times. Genesis 2: 2-3 says "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made." And so the seventh day of the week, which is Saturday, was to be a day of rest in the Lord for man. Sunday is the first day of the week. Or, maybe it can be considered to to the the "eighth" day.
Hebrews 4: 3-4 says "For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works."
Number seven is being in God's rest. This does not get into a Harold Camping kind of complex numerology. Its there in scripture.
The kingdoms in Daniel 2: are Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome, and the kingdom of Egypt and the Assyrian Kingdom make this list add up to six kingdoms. In Daniel 2: 44 a seventh kingdom arises during the Roman Empire, the kingdom of God.
Being in God is being in number seven. But man, not being content to stay in God as number seven, moved into number eight, which is a mingling of the Kingdom of God with the kingdom of man.
We can then see that Talmudic Judaism moved from number seven to number eight. Roman Catholicism moved from the early church period, number seven, to number eight, a mix of man's religion, or pagan religion, with the kingdom of God. Protestant dispensationalism is doing the same thing, but going back to Judaism rather than Catholicism in this process of moving out of number seven to number eight.
The six, seven, eight cycle shown in Revelation 17: 11 can apply to Satan, who was, is not, and comes back. Satan is not during the thousand year reign of Christ, but then he is released and he is again. We have to have faith that he will be done away with permanently later.
I don't think the statement in Revelation 20: 7-8 that Satan will be released can be simply ignored. It has a meaning that must be considered.
WHAT WILL TAKE PLACE ON THE LAST DAY AT THE 2ND COMING OF JESUS??
Luke 21:25,26: Jesus says, �Immediately after the distress of those {1260} days {Or 42 30-day months -See Rev 13:5-10}The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world. See also Mark:13:24,25; Matt 24:29 & Rev 6:12-17
Luke 21:28: When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.
Rev 1:7: Look, He is coming with the clouds, and **EVERY** eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him. Just before His 2nd Coming every saved and lost person will be awakened to witness His 2nd Coming as per Matt 26:64; John 5:28,29 & Daniel 12:2 This will not include the martyrs and the 24 Elders on thrones who will already be awake as per Rev 4:4; 6:9-11; 7:9,14,15 & Rev 20:4-6.
Matt 24:30,31; Mark 13:24,25; & Luke 21:27: At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will *SEE the Son of man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And He will send His angels:angel::angel::angel: with a loud trumpet call {the 7th and Last Trumpet}, and they will gather his elect from the 4 winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.� I Thess 4:16b,17: �The dead in Christ will rise first, After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.� Mark 13:27b adds �He will gather His elect from the ends of the earth {Saints on earth} to the ends of the heavens. {Saints in Heaven}
I Corinthians 15:49,51,52: Just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the Man from Heaven {See Rev 1:13-16}...We will not all sleep, but we will **ALL** be changed�in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the {7th &} Last Trumpet!�
Then all of God's saints with their new heavenly bodies will celebrate the marriage Feast of the Lamb: Rev 19:7,8: �Hallelujah!... for the Wedding of the Lamb has come, and His bride has made herself ready. Fine linen, bright and clean was given her to wear!�
There will be 2 comings of Jesus on the same Last Day. The First will be **FOR** His saints and the Second Coming will be **WITH** His saints just after the marriage Feast of the Lamb.
Revelation 19:11,13;14, 19-21:.�I saw Heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose Rider is called Faithful and True... He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and His Name is the Word of God. The armies of Heaven were following Him riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean {See Rev 19:8}.... Then I saw the Beast {666} and the {10} kings { See Rev 17:12-14 below} of the earth and their {10} armies gathered together to make war against the Rider on the horse and His army. But the Beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf... The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the Rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh. {See Rev 17:12-14 and Jude 14-16}
Rev 17:12-14; The 10 horns you saw are 10 kings... They will give their power and authority to the Beast {666}. They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because He is Lord of lords and King of kings.�
Then Satan {See Rev 16:13,14,16} and the rest of the armies of the world surrounded Jerusalem {After arriving at Armageddon just 55 miles North of Jerusalem} Rev 20:9,10: �But fire came down from Heaven and devoured them. And the Devil who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the Beast {666} and the False Prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.�
I Cor 15:20-24: �But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the FIRSTFRUITS of those who have fallen asleep...For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ the FIRSTFRUITS;; then when He comes, those who belong to Him. {*THEN*} the {*END*} will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.�
Luke 21:33: Jesus says �Heaven and earth will pass away but My Words will never pass away!� 2 Peter 7,10,13: �The present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the Day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men... But the Day of the Lord {See I Cor 1:7,8} will come like a thief.{To unbelievers} The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be burned up... But in keeping with His promise we are looking forward to a NEW HEAVEN and a NEW EARTH, the Home of righteousness.�
Revelation 20:11-14: �Then I saw a great white **THRONE** {See Matt 25:31b below} and Him {Jesus} who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled away from His presence {See 2 Peter 3:10-12; I Cor 15:24 & Rev 21:1}, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another Book was opened, which is the Book of Life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the Books and each person was judged according to what he had done {See Rev 22:12}. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. If anyone's name was not found written in the {Lamb's-Rev 13:8; 17:8} Book of Life {Dan 12:1b,2}, he was thrown into the lake of fire.�
Matthew 25:31-34,41,46: �**WHEN** the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on **HIS THRONE** {See Rev 20:11 above} in Heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him and He will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on His right and the goats on the left.�
�*THEN* the King will say to those on the right, �Come you who are blessed by My Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.� {The New Jerusalem with its New Heaven and New Earth�See Rev 21:1-5 & 2 Peter 3:10-13}
�**THEN* He will say to those on His left, �Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.� ....{See John 12:48; John 5:28,29; 2 Thess 1:6-10; Daniel 12:2}
�*THEN* they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.�
Rev 21 1:1-3: Then I saw a NEW HEAVEN and a NEW EARTH, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. {THEN} I saw the NEW JERUSALEM, coming down out of heaven from God...,And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, �Now the dwelling of God is with men, and He will live with them!!� {You will note that the New Jerusalem will come only *AFTER the present heaven and earth have passed away.} �They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.!! He who was seated on the Throne said, �I am making **EVERYTHING NEW**!!� :applause: See John 14:1-3; Hebrews 11:10,16; 2 Peter 3:10-13
halfback the reason for the last post was to show that Satan was stopped from deceiving the nations for good on the last day of the Great Tribulation shortly after the 2nd coming of Jesus as per Rev 20:10.
If for example the 1260-day Great Tribulation is from October 23rd 2011 to April 5th 2015: Then Satan will deceive all the nations again for 1260 days beginning at October 23rd 2011. And then according to God's Word Satan was stopped from deceiving the nations exactly 1,000 years before October 23rd, 2011 which would have been on October 23rd 1011.
Revelation 20:14,7-10:
And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven..He seized the dragon who is Satan and bound him for 1,000 years.. to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the 1,000 years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time{the 1260-day Great Tribulation when he will completely deceive the nations for 1260-days}
When the 1,000 years are over,{Or Oct 23, 1011 to Oct 23,2011} Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations {See Rev 13:4 and Rev 16:13-16}in the 4 corners of the earth...They march across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the Devil who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur where the beast {666} and the False Prophet {See Rev 19:20}had been thrown. They {666 the False Prophet and Satan} will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
WHEN WAS SATAN STOPPED FROM DECEIVING THE NATIONS SO THAT THE GOSPEL COULD BE PREACHED TO EVERY NATION IN THE WORLD AS PER MATTHEW 24:14 AND REVELATION..7:9??�
������ Let us assume that the Great Tribulation will last 1260 days from October 23rd, 2011 to April 5th, 2014.� As you know Satan was successful in stopping the Gospel from spreading past 5% of the earth; or southern Europe and Northern Africa for almost 1000 years. Suddenly the Gospel was being preached throughout the pagan kingdoms of Russia, Finland, Denmark, Norway and Sweden around AD 1011.� And in the past 1000 years the Gospel has spread to all of Africa and Asia, North and South America, and all the remote islands of the earth.� As you know the gospel must be preached to every nation of the earth before the end can come as per Matthew 24:14 and Revelation 7:9.�
And so about 95% of the world�s nations have heard the gospel for the first time during the past 1,000 years. ������ Rev 20:2,3: �He {The angel} seized the dragon, who is the devil or Satan and bound him for 1,000 years {FOR EXAMPLE: Oct 23rd, AD 1011 to Oct 23rd, 2011}.� He threw him into the Abyss to keep him from deceiving the nations until the 1,000 years were ended {Oct 23rd, 2011}.� After that he must be set free for a short time.� Or 1260 days from Oct 23rd, 2011 to April 5th, 2015 during the Great Tribulation when Satan will again deceive ALL the nations until the Last Day.�
Yes halfback you should post on all your threads that anyone who disagrees with your Amillianism and that the book of Revelation is a symbolic fairy tale and not really God's Word as per John Calvin
should not dare to disagree with your ridiculous end-time doctrines or to quote God's Word to expose your heresies.
If someone on this forum does not like what is said, he or she can openly point out why - with scripture in most cases. Since there is no moderator on this forum, a member can also post a number of long messages which may have little or nothing to do with the topic to drive others away from reading the disliked post. Posting long messages drives the thread into extra pages, which for this system, makes it time consuming to find the last post of the thread - which can keep others from bothering to read it.
Most people here don't do this because its sort of a nasty way of expressing dislike for a message.
You have stated you opinion of why you believe in Amillenianism and I have tried to show through God's Word why I disagree with Amillenianism. You should post on your thread that who dares to disagree with you is a Satanic dispensationalist. Calvin is not a good one to quote on Amillenianism or Revelation since Calvin wrote an Institute on every book of the Bible except Revelation and did not believe Revelation has any spiritual value and is not the inspired Word of God.
When I went to Calvin College I heard hundreds of sermons by Christian Reformed preachers and not one was from the book of Revelation. Could it be that most Christian Reformed preachers really don't believe that Revelation is the inspired Word of God like their revered John Calvin?? However, They will never admit this since Revelation is now a part of every Bible. They just make Revelation into a symbolic fairy tale which can not be taken literally and that no one can really understand. And anyone who disagrees with them is a Satanic dispensationalist.
Rev 22:16,18,19: Jesus says, �I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give *YOU* {The Greek for YOU is plural} this testimony {ALL OF REVELATION} *FOR* the CHURCHES.� This contradicts the ridiculous pre-trib idea that Revelation, chapters 4-19, was not written *FOR* the CHURCHES! The word �CHURCH�is also not mentioned in 9 books of the NT: John, Mark, Luke, 2 Tim, 1 John, 2 John, 1 Peter, 2 Peter and Jude; and is not mentioned in the first 15 chapters of Romans and yet every word in all these NT books are �FOR THE CHURCHES�..... �I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book.� If anyone *ADDS anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book {Including eternal torment in Hell}.� And if anyone *TAKES WORDS AWAY* {Like John Calvin} from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city {The New Jerusalem} which are described in this book.�
One of the main reasons we end with such different interpretations on John's Revelation, is how we interpret the entire Book.
Dispensationalists interpret Revelation as if it is in Chronological order.
In other words, Johns vision is just one long video of what is going to happen and it is all in order, with the first thing shown as the first thing happening, and then the middle, and then the end.
I believe Johns Revelation must be interpreted as progressive parallelism. In other words, shapshots of the SAME event, but from different camera angles.
Like if you see a photo of a tree, and then take another photo of the SAME tree, but from the other side. It looks a bit different, but it is the same tree.
John's Revelation is NOT in chronological order.
And once you see that the events being shown are the same events, just from different angles, then it becomes clear, that that is what was shown to John.
One of the main reasons we end with such different interpretations on John's Revelation, is how we interpret the entire Book.
Dispensationalists interpret Revelation as if it is in Chronological order.
In other words, Johns vision is just one long video of what is going to happen and it is all in order, with the first thing shown as the first thing happening, and then the middle, and then the end.
This not is not true Post-tribbers believe that events which will occur on the Last Day of the 1260-day or 42-month {See Rev 13:5-10} Great Tribulation are recorded in Revelation chapters 6, 11 14, 16, 19, & 20 and are NOT in Chronological order. About half of the pre-trib dispensationalists also believe this.
������ Jesus {See Rev 1:10,18} said to John in Rev 1:19: �Write what you have seen, what is now {Rev chapters 2 & 3} and *WHAT WILL TAKE PLACE LATER*.� {Rev chapters 6-22}� Events that will occur on the Last Day are recorded in Rev 6:12-17; Rev 11:15-19; Rev 14:14-20; Rev 16:17-21; Rev 19:1-21 & Rev 20:9b-15. Events which will occur during the 1260-day Tribulation are recorded in all the other verses in Revelation chapters 6 through 18.
There are 4 unpardonable sins added to God's Word in the Book of Revelation:
{1} If anyone worships the Beast {666} or his statue he will receive eternal torment in hell {NO 2nd chances} {See Rev 14-9-11}
{2} If anyone receives the name of the Beast or the number of his name on his right hand or forehead he will receive eternal torment in hell. {NO 2nd chances-See Rev 14:9-11}
{3} Rev 22:19: If anyone TAKES WORDS AWAY from this book of prophecy, God will take away from Him his share in the holy city, which are described in this book {The New Jerusalem}. And if you don't get into the New Jerusalem you have 3 guesses as to where you are going!
{4} Rev 22:18 "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book {Which would include eternal torment in hell as per Rev 14:10,11; 19:20; 20:10}
James says "believe Johns Revelation must be interpreted as progressive parallelism. In other words, shapshots of the SAME event, but from different camera angles."
Even so, there is information in the different views presented by the book. When Revelation 20: 7 says "...when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be released out of his prison" this does not say Satan will have less restraint on him near the end of the thousand years, which is what other scripture suggests.
Satan will have less restraint on him near the end of the period from the Cross until Christ appears.
Revelation 12: 12 says "...for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."
And II Thessalonians 2: 7 says iniquity goes on , and he who letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way." He who letteth is the restrainer who is taken out of the way, and probably in the end times, during the tribulation. But not after the tribulation ends, when Christ will be on earth, as Revelation 20: 7 would say - if the thousand years is an allegory for the entire period from the Cross to the appearance of Christ.
The restrainer restrains Satan.
John was inspired by the Holy Spirit in writing Revelation, and we need to assume that the bits of information in the book were put there for a purpose. In other words, you might say the thousand years is an allegory, but not the information that Satan will be released at the end of that period. To make the allegory that the thousand years is the entire period from the Cross to the appearance of Christ work, you have to ignore Revelation 20: 7 altogether or make it say Satan will be released near the end of the period.
