Thread: Romans 13 and Obedience To Possible Government Control of Alternative Media
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Romans 13 and Obedience To Possible Government Control of Alternative Media
Posted : 17 Jun, 2011 06:50 AM
Romans 13 and Obedience To Possible Government Control of Alternative Media
Again, as has happened before, the CDFFF system asked me for my user name and password when i finished this post, but when I typed them in, my post had disappeared. Fortunately i didn't write the post here on CDFF.
Romans 13 and Obedience To Possible Government Control of Alternative Media
In 1954 the federal government made it possible for churches to tax exempt from paying taxes to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS)
The 501(c)(3) IRS incorporated "church" has since then become a creature, or to
be more exact, a "body," a corpus, which is what a corporation is, of the Federal Government.
Although almost never applied by the executive branch before the Clinton and George W. Bush
administrations, in the past 20 years the provision that a church can lose its 501(c)(3) status for
certain political activities has been enforced a few times. For example, Texe Marrs, who at first had a
501(c0(3) status, was visited by FBI agents and told he must stop his criticism of some of the lesbian
women in the Clinton camp, and some other things Texe had been saying. Texe was
able to drop out of the tax exempt program without losing his ministry. The takeover of the Indianapolis
Baptist Temple in Indianapolis, Indiana by the feds in February of 2001 at the very start of the George W. Bush
regime is more complex than the church saying things the feds did not like.
http://www.cuttingedge.org/News/n1472.cfm
"FEDS Seize Indianapolis Church For Back Taxes", NewsMax.com wires, February 13, 2001...Ending a 91-day standoff, federal marshals seized Indianapolis Baptist Temple for back taxes Tuesday [February 13] and removed praying church members." The church tried to get out of its IRS tax exempt status but did not do so in a way that enabled them
to avoid paying federal taxes, and so the feds just took the buildings owned by the church.
According to Black�s Law Dictionary a corporation is "an artifical person or legal entity created by or under the authority of the laws of a state; an association of persons created by statute of a legal entity"
A corporation is under the government which incorporates it, and the church corporation must have an agent who represents the interests of the government. This agent apparently can be an attorney, but often it is the preacher of the church. So, the Christian IRS incorporated 501 (c) (3) "church" becomes an entity of the state and its preacher is an agent of the state, rather than of Jesus Christ.
According to http://www.thewordsofeternallife.com/state_church.html
The IRS makes a conditional contract with the church when it grants the church tax exempt status. Some of the
conditions the church must agree to are:
1." You can not criticize any other faith group, cult, or religion;
2. Do not discourage young women from getting an abortion, or endorse the pro-life movement;
3. Do not identify homosexuality as a sin and an abomination to God;
4. Do not appeal to peoples� emotions by employing an evangelization method (such as "fire and brimstone" preaching) not considered a "reasonable approach" by the IRS;
5. Do not discuss or identify threats to Christianity;
6. Do not highlight or otherwise bring attention to immorality of public officials or corruption in the government, or a particular bill, or act;
7. Do not support home schooling;
8. Do not advocate or teach any Bible doctrine that is politically or religiously incorrect, or is inconsistent with any "public policy" (abortion, gay rights, etc.) currently being enforced by the IRS."
Even before the IRS incorporated status of the American "church," many churches had been teaching that Romans 13 means Christians should always obey the government.
But when the federal government a few years ago began to actually enforce
the conditions under what an incorporated church must operate for a few churches to send
others a message, the urge to obey the government became much stronger for church Christians.
Now, the question is, if the govrenment decides to supervise alternative media to prevent that media
from saying something the government does not like, is the church to support the government in this?
Almost all of what is called alternative media is Internet media.
Reports from "alternative media" people who have for years covered the yearly meetings of
the ruling elite - who include the financial elite, the big bankers, called the Bilderbergers - have said that this year
in Switzerland they have indicated they want to deal with the alternative media, that is, Internet media.
The elite's war on alternative media would probably include the very many Internet broadcasters and the great number of web sites and blogs which are not now supervised by the federal and state governments. The goal of the elite would be to stop alternative media from saying things that the controlled media never says, and to re-establish
the controlled media - the TV news, most FM and AM radio news, magazines, etc - as the totally dominant media for the dumbed down people.
There appears to be sort of the beginning of a rebellion against the big international bankers in some of the southern European countries, as shown by the protests against the Bilderberger meeting in Switzerland recently, etc. The elite tend to start wars in order to divert attention of the public away from any rebellion against the rule of the elite. The U.S. may start a third ground war in Libya soon, for example.
I suspect that most of the preachers and churches will keep silent on the issue of government control and censorship of the alternative media, that is, the Internet media. Don't rock the boat.
Romans 13 and Obedience To Possible Government Control of Alternative Media
Posted : 17 Jun, 2011 07:28 PM
Now I have a better understanding of the Marrs situstion... His first problem that brought him problems was his book about political figures, and his out spokenness about them, so the FBI saw this as a threat and in return threaten him... and if he was spekaing out against these two women on air, then this also added to his problems...
They only restriction when a church or religious ministry with a 501c3, is they are not suppose to become politically involved to the extent they they use the pulpit to influence the votihng process, but there are not resitrictions on pastors or ministrers preaching God's word fo truth in the pulpit. I have never heard of such.
I worked with a large church ministry in Los Angeles, and they preach and we would take to the streets carrying a large cross with all the sins God calls sin from the Bible posted all over the cross. And the ministers preached about homoseualityt and everything else God calls a sin, and there was never any problems.
Many ministers preach about homosexuality in the pulpit, so I sure don't understand other than Marrs may have gone too far with his speaking out about two women who are politically involved with government and are protected therefore, Marrs was seen to be a trheat.
Most churches large and small who are incorporated stay awy from politics in the pulpit, not so much becasue of a IRS or government resotiction, but becasue chruch memebers don't care to hear about this in church worship, it takes the focus away from Christ, so you really don't find preachers speaking about politics in the pulpits other than telling their memeber during voting time, to pray and allow God to help them make the right decisions.
Marrs not only may have been in violation of being preceived as a threat, but its may have been a case of him saying the wrogns things over the air, and there are rules and restrictions as to waht a person can say over the air in public form... and if viewers call in complaining about his comments to the IRS or FBI, he for sure ghas set himself up for an aduti and investigation... FBI would tne of course step in and do whatever they deem necessary to stop him from making such statements, wheteher they were wrng in doing so or not.. and becasue they are who they are of a higher power they could very well threaten to pull his 501c3.
It also must be understood that all believers are responsible for the spiritual grwoth and enlightment of the worship service in a church. The only church Paul did not have problems with was the church at Philipi, they were faithful and devoted to him as well as the call of the chuch ministry. The church at Corinth was out of order in many things, this is why Paul had to given them a strong rebuke, and wrote two letters to them about their foolishness in the church. So were the other churches.
But all the church helped each other with their finances and Paul collected money from the churches to help and support the churches that did not have the money. Plus, as we read in the book of Acts, the people were willing to sell those things they own to bring money on for the poor peop in the community and for churches... not many today would do such and give to those in need or the church willingly... they don't even give of their time, so when a church is trying to set up an outreach ministry for the community, and the members don't give of their funds, the only way to get those things needed to bring success for an outreach program is to allow for grants from the government.
Why you can't get people to even WORK in the otureach program as volunteers, so the churches in most cases must pay a salary to those who do work. And this didn;t jus start, this has been the case for many years...but I can remember during my youth, church memembers worked very hard in programs for the youth, and recovery programs for adults who weer in need of substance abuse and hadother needs.. but then again there are only a feww who will dedicate their time and serivce today for the cause. Then people sit back and complain about what the church isn;t doing. Well... where is the money going to come from, and who are the people to work these program?
I still think there is more behind Marrs case than meets the eye... if he is paying money out AFTER he has dropped his 501c3, then he most likely OWED taxes from profit dealing using the minisrty name and they found out about it...you siad he had no assests, so why is he paying out to IRS? There are no monthly fees to become a 501c3, only your filing...so I think there is a fly in his milk:excited:
Romans 13 and Obedience To Possible Government Control of Alternative Media
Posted : 18 Jun, 2011 01:33 PM
ET
Texe Marrs is not a standard preacher. His "papers are not in order." He did not attend a theological seminary. Texe taught Air Force ROTC in a university as an Air Force Captain, and he has some college degrees, but not in theology. He might have been ordained by some preacher, because he married Alex Jones in Austin. Apparently Travis county, Texas recognized him as having credentials to marry people. But he belongs to no denomination. I can see why you would oppose him and think he did something wrong. There is even a hint in what you said that he did something wrong in publishing his book, "Big Sister Is Watching You" and in being critical of Janet Reno and Hillary Clinton on his broadcasts during the Clinton regime.
Romans 13 and Obedience To Possible Government Control of Alternative Media
Posted : 18 Jun, 2011 01:59 PM
No, Halkback I don't think he did anything wrong by publishing his book or what he has to say... what I'm saying is that soemthng is all right, in your propmotion of him as being right, and the IRS or FBI are all wrong. There is usually soemthing else going on the back gorund we don't know about and Marrs maybe only putting in public what he wants other to know for public support.
Jesus teaches us that we are to obey the law of the land, and we are to give to Ceasar what belongs to him, and to God what belong to Gd.
You posted Romans 13, yes, this is also referring to our obedience to those in authority over us in civil matter local, state, and federal government, or even on this site. There are rules that must be followed or else go find a place wherein you don't have andy rules and regulations to follow, and enjoy being lawless.
God ordained the government the order of gvernment in the beginning. So if the government says we are to do such and such, as along as it is NOT in opposition to what God teaches and morals rights of another person, we are to obey, even Paul teahces this.
Therefore, the way I see it is, if Marrs is such a godly man of God's holy word, then he should have no problems obeying what the government has to say as long as it does not oppose what God teaches us. As Peter and Paul and the other apsotles told the council when they were ordered not to preach or speak the name of Jesus anymore in the cities they ministered. The apostles stood and said, Man ought to obey God rather than man." Therefore, when what man says is in opposition to what God has siad, we are to take a stand and obey what God has spoke regarless of the conssequence we suffer. We must stand for what is right in God's eye sight and not in our own. This is my point...
Being obedient to the rues and law of our government is our Christian duty and obligation and necessary in obedience to God... as I've said these are the higher powers God established or be willing to suffer as Paul write the judgment (punishment) of the government.. good and evil, right and wrong, as long as there is no violation of God's word then when there is we must be willing to suffer the consequence and let God do His work against those who seek to punish us fo rdoign as God has said... God said He will fight our battles, but we must make sure we stand in the right... otherwise we're on our own. cuz, God ain't getting in our mess when we are wrong:laugh:
Romans 13 and Obedience To Possible Government Control of Alternative Media
Posted : 18 Jun, 2011 02:47 PM
I looked at some sites on the Internet about churches and paying federal income taxes. Its not an easy subject. One thing I was wondering about is how the IRS defines a church, and I didn't find any definition.
Texe Marrs, for example, had a broadcast and book writing ministry for a number of years. He is also involved in the home church movement and probably, at least at one time, was in an Austin, Texas home church. Did the IRS define his ministry as a church when he had 501 (c) (3) stratus?
I know of another Christian leader who also has been involved for many years in a broadcast and writing ministry, but who has no home church involvement at all, and lives out in the mountains of the West. He has deliberately avoided any incorporation and 501(c)(3) IRS status. He and his wife sell survival items, books, tapes etc - which has worked because they have been at it since the late nineties. He has four main networks now, including a TV network. Is he a church, or, if he were to apply for 501(c) (3) status would the IRS regard him as one? Who knows?
