Thread: Harold Camping and the Amillennialist View of Prophecy
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Harold Camping and the Amillennialist View of Prophecy
Posted : 4 Jun, 2011 12:35 AM
The
Catholic and Calvinist amillennialist view involves a lot more than
just their rejection of Revelation 20: 1-5 on the thousand year reign
of Christ when the saved in Christ will reign with Christ. The
amillennialists tend to interpret away much of end time Bible prophecy
as being mere broad sweeping allegory. They say the thousand year
reign of Christ of Revelation 20: 1-5 is the entire church period.
Likewise, the amillennialists say the 144,000 of Revelation 7:3-8 and
14: 1-5 represent all the saved people of all ages.
So the amillennialists tend to interpret end time Bible prophecy in a
very general broad sweeping allegorical way. This tendency to see end time prophecy as being only broad sweeping allegory discourages them from studying end time prophecy more consistently
to understand it more fully in greater detail and
depth - and it is a difficult subject to understand. Its not surprising
that Harold Camping and his loyal followers would not know end time prophecy
too well, and might therefore be more likely to believe that the end
of the world and the rapture could be predicted by a study of
time spans in the Old Testament and by Camping's peculiar Biblical numerology.
For years Harold Camping alone has hosted a call-in radio program
over Family Radio called Open Forum. Here is Camping's response to a
question about the 144,000 of Revelation 7: 1-8. This is long, but it
illustrates
Camping's use of amillennialist doctrine in interpreting an end time prophecy.
621A OPEN FORUM With Harold Camping
Who are the 144,000 of Revelation 7? This is from the
records of Open Forum compiled by Leon Kolberg.
Harold Camping: "Good evening. Welcome to Open Forum.
CALLER: Hi. I have a question from Revelation. I've heard someone
refer to the 144,000 sealed, who are mentioned in Chapter 7, verse 4,
as being the people who are saved. And I'm confused on this. I've
also been told that this wasn't true. And I'd also like to know if
those mentioned there in verse 4 are the same ones mentioned in verse
9.
HC: The question is, who are the 144,000 of Revelation 7? We read in
Revelation 7 that they are the ones who are to be sealed on their
foreheads before the events described in Revelation 8 and 9 take
place. We find the same 144,000 emphasized in Revelation 14, where it
speaks of them in verse 1, "one hundred and forty-four thousand,
having the Father's name written in their foreheads," and they, we
read in verse 3, were those who were "redeemed from the earth, they
which were not defiled with women, they are virgins. These are they
which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goest. These were redeemed
from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and the Lamb. And in
their mouth was found no guile, for they are without fault before the
throne of God."
Incidentally, in Revelation 7 God speaks of them as being 12,000 from
each of 12 tribes of Israel. Now we know of course that the company
of those who will be saved is a vast company which no man can number,
according to the language in various places. Abraham was told, for
example, that his seed would be as the sand of the seashore. And
actually, the information in Revelation 7:9 is talking about a vast
company who are saved: "After this I beheld and lo, a great multitude
which no man can number, of all nations and kindreds and people and
tongues, who stood before the Throne and before the Lamb, clothed
with white robes and palms in their hands." This is the number of the
people who are saved. And so we know that 144,000 literally could not
signify the number of saved people although in Revelation 14 it is
talking about all those who were redeemed from the earth.
When we look at this number 12, however (or the number 144, which, is
12 times 12), we find that particularly in Revelation (although it
could be in other parts of the Bible, also).God is using it as a
symbolical number to illustrate the wonderful truth of the fullness
of whatever God has in view. And because it's talking about people
here, it would be the fullness of all believers. We find this
dramatically in Revelation 21, where it talks about "the Holy City,
the New Jerusalem." It has 12 foundations, it has 12 gates. Its walls
are 144 cubits. Now that's not a real wall. You can't build a wall
144 cubits. It doesn't say whether it was 144 cubits long or wide or
high. It's just 144 cubits. And so we know that the number is
symbolical. It's emphasizing the fullness of all believers.
And so in Revelation 7, where it talks about 144,000, God is simply
saying, this is the fullness of all believers. All who are to be
saved must be saved before the account of Revelation 8 and 9 will
begin - before the final Tribulation will begin. And so indeed they
are the same group of people spoken of in verse 9, these who have
come out of great tribulation, out of the Great Tribulation. It's the
totality of all the believers that will ever believe on the Lord
Jesus Christ
Thank you for sharing that question. Good night."
In saying the 144,000 are "...the totality of all the believers that
will ever believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" Camping is following the
Augustine interpretation of Revelation 7: 1-8. Camping is
emphasizing the numerology of 12 x 12 and the 144,000 more than
Augustine may have done. However, Origen who influenced the broad
Amillennial allegorical method of interpretation used by Augustine,
Harold Camping and the Amillennialist View of Prophecy
Posted : 4 Jun, 2011 04:32 PM
What I wrote here was repeated over and over by the guy who does not like what I said, making this thread so long that it can discourage others from reading all of it. Anyone on the forum can do this, if he or she does not like what someone said. This is a form of "debate" which requires a moderator if members cannot restrain themselves from doing it or others allow it to take place.
Harold Camping and the Amillennialist View of Prophecy
Posted : 4 Jun, 2011 05:42 PM
James wrote - "What we reject is hyper-literalism. John was shown a VISION by God, and wrote down what he saw. How can one literally SEE a "thousand years"? If I go outside at night and look up at the sky, and say to you: "There are a thousand stars in the sky tonight" You don't take that as literal, you take that to mean that a person can see a LOT of stars. when John said "a thousand years" he meant a perfect and long amount of tme."
:laugh: A thousand years = a perfect and long amount of time? And because your eyes cannot count or see? a thousand stars in the sky, God cannot say to John that a certain vision he has been given is to last a literal thousand years?
Harold Camping and the Amillennialist View of Prophecy
Posted : 4 Jun, 2011 06:13 PM
Harold Camping comes from a Christian Reformed Church which believes in a symbolic view of Revelation which is somewhat different from The Roman Catholic Preterist view which believes that everything in Revelation and Matthew 244 & 25 etc took place before AD 70.
So Camping does not believe in a 1260-day or 7 year Tribulation since he believes the time periods in Revelation are symbolic but he changed his symbolic view to a 5 month Tribulation ending on October 21,2011 and now he has changed again to no tribulation and the world ending with the rapture on Oct 21, 2011.
It is interesting to note that all of the bogus predictions of the rapture in the past generation have been by PRE-TRIB nuts such as Harold Camping {1994 & 2011}, Hal Lindsey {1988}, and Edgar Whisenant {1988, 1989, 1993, 1994 & 1997} who have made millions in ridiculous books as have the Satanic Left Behind series which made 63 million and has given numerous black eyes to the evangelical movement. The Left Behind series continually ADDED and TOOK WORDS AWAY from God's Word in Revelation which is an unpardonable sin according to Revelation 22:18,19. For example, Revelation 13:17 states that the Tribulation saints will not be able to buy anything and in the Left Behind series the Tribulation saints were apparently buying food and paying rent and almost living normal lives for long periods of time.
Matthew 24:3,9-13: The disciples asked Jesus, �What will be the sign of your Coming and the end of the age?? Jesus answered�.. {During the Great Tribulation} �Then *YOU* will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and *YOU will be hated by all nations because of Me. At that time many will turn away from the Faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of *MOST* will grow cold,{THE GREAT APOSTASY} but he {The Called, Chosen & Faithful-Rev 17:14b} who stands firm to the End will be saved.�
2 Thess 1:1; 2:1,3,8� �To the *CHURCH* of the Thessalonians�Concerning the *COMING* of our Lord Jesus Christ and *OUR* being gathered to Him�Don�t let anyone deceive you in any way for *THAT DAY* will not come *UNTIL* the man of lawlessness is revealed!!... Then the lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord Jesus Christ will destroy with the splendor of His *COMING*!� So anyone who claims that the church saints will be gathered *BEFORE* the coming of the lawless one {666} is absolutely contradicting God�s inspired words!! This, of course, totally destroys the central pre-trib doctrine of the *IMMINENT* coming of Jesus! {That Jesus could come RIGHT NOW} Since the *COMING of Jesus in 2 Thess 2:8 is POST-TRIB then the *COMING of Jesus when *WE are gathered to Him in 2 Thess 2:3 must also be POST-TRIB since it is in the same context and obviously refers to the same day.
2 Thess 1:1,6-10: �To the *CHURCH* of the Thessalonians�God is just; He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen *WHEN* the Lord Jesus is *REVEALED* {See I Peter 1:13} from heaven in blazing fire�. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting *DESTRUCTION* and shut out from the presence of the Lord *ON THE DAY HE COMES* to be glorified in His holy people!!�
