Author Thread: *GROUND*...simple but not easy question!
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*GROUND*...simple but not easy question!
Posted : 22 May, 2011 01:02 PM

You all know the parable in Matthew 13:3-23 about the seed that fell on the path (hard ground), the rocky ground, the thorny ground, and the good ground.

Hopefully we all agree the seed is the Gospel, and the ground represents different kinds of people.

So here is the simple however not easy question:

'Who or What determines the condition of the ground before the seed is sown on it?'

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*GROUND*...simple but not easy question!
Posted : 23 May, 2011 12:17 AM

Harden the heart, harden the soil, I heard a wise man say once that man would harden their own heart by not listening and doing what the lord told them.

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*GROUND*...simple but not easy question!
Posted : 23 May, 2011 07:12 AM

Yeap...'if today you hear His voice harden not your heart'

� seems we do have some say or (responsibility) it all this which would equate to Free Will!

However I am still curious why we make the decisions we do

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*GROUND*...simple but not easy question!
Posted : 23 May, 2011 07:16 AM

Twosparrows said:



"Who or What determines the condition of the ground before the seed is sown on it?'





James replies:



The Fall.

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*GROUND*...simple but not easy question!
Posted : 23 May, 2011 07:51 AM

What saith the scripture, concerning man under the fall and his ability to respond to the word of God.



Mt 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

mt !3:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

13:15 For this people�s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.



Theses had they ability they choose not to hear.



The one under the fall that was blessed was the ones that:



Mt 13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.



Couldn't be any clearer!!



Mk's acct of the sower says this:



Mk 4:23 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

Mk 4:24 And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.

Mk 4:25 For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.



lk 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.



The parable of the sower teaches us this is how the kingdom of God operates, before the fall, during the fall, and after the resurrection.



Abraham under the fall is our father by faith in otherwords he was a man that walked in the light of this teaching.

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*GROUND*...simple but not easy question!
Posted : 23 May, 2011 07:57 AM

@James

There are 4 kinds of ground described in this parable representing 4 kinds of responses to the Gospel. There is surely a infinite number of combinations of ground as there are people. And granted; the fall affected all mankind equally with the sentence of death. However it appears it has not affected all equally as to their response to God's invitation.



(Let's forget the doctrines of others for a moment at look at this for ourselves ...shall we?)

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Posted : 23 May, 2011 12:15 PM

@sparrow:



Instead of looking at what causes the heart to be as it is,

First could someone show what makes up 'THE HEART'.



Then we could tackle this together.



Greek word:kardia



G2588

καρδία

kardia

Thayer Definition:

1) the heart

1a) that organ in the animal body which is the centre of the circulation of the blood, and hence was regarded as the seat of physical life

1b) denotes the centre of all physical and spiritual life

2a) the vigour and sense of physical life

2b) the centre and seat of spiritual life

2b1) the soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavours

2b2) of the understanding, the faculty and seat of the intelligence

2b3) of the will and character

2b4) of the soul so far as it is affected and stirred in a bad way or good, or of the soul as the seat of the sensibilities, affections, emotions, desires, appetites, passions

1c) of the middle or central or inmost part of anything, even though inanimate

Part of Speech: noun feminine

A Related Word by Thayer�s/Strong�s Number: prolonged from a primary kar (Latin, cor, �heart�)

Citing in TDNT: 3:605, 415

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*GROUND*...simple but not easy question!
Posted : 23 May, 2011 02:49 PM

So in other words George to understand heart and it's usage here is to know the context, unless of course, heart and mind are not the same or conjoined.

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Posted : 23 May, 2011 05:39 PM

I had planned not to get into this, but I decided to say a word or two or maybe three...

Firstly, you must understand the meaning of the parable as to how Jesus is using the ground and seed as related to the farmer planting... as I posted sometimes back on the seed thread, that God uses concepts that we can relate to, to tell His parables in biblical terms, and if you don't understand such concepts you will miss the point of what His parables are speaking about spiritually.

The ground and seed here are being used in terms of agricultural as a farmer plant his garden, so should we plant the seed which is the word or gospel of Jesus Christ into the world. And to remember that soem will and some will not receive it and Jesus explains why this is in this parable....

Jesus tells us in John chapter 3:19-21; And this is the condemnation, that light (Jesus, the gospel) has come into the world, and men (people) loved darkness (sin) rather than the light, becausetheir deeds (works of their sins) were evil. For every person ho does evil (sins) hates the light, neither comes to the light lest their deeds (sins) should be reproved. But the person who does the truth comes to the light, so that his/her deeds (good) may be made known, that they are works in/of God.. These passges explain why some people will receive the gospel and why some will not, becuse of SIN...

Now, In the parable Jesus tells us this as He explains the parable in Matthew chapter 13:18-23: The sower is Christ working through believers who go forth with the gospel which is the seed, spreading it throughout the world , which is the ( ground/field),in our communities to everybody. The only way a person can receive the gosple to believe, is by FAITH AND REPENTANCE.

1. The seed sown by the way side this is the gospel being given to those who reject hearing the truth of the gospel, and the fowls, which means the devil comes and because they enjoy their sins, this prevents them from hearing and receiving the gospel, and they refuse to repent.

2. The stony ground or places are those who hear the gospel (receive the seed) but have shallow hearts ( enjoy their sins and yet they have a form of godliness) and they receive it with joy, yet remain in their sins on the side and do not truly repent. They are not truly born again and have no confidence in themselves, and because as Jesus says, as soon as problems or trials and persecutions comes they are unable to stand and are easily offend by the truth of the gospel so they give up.

3. The Seed sown on among thorns are just ike the seed sown on stony ground, the seed is sown among thorns which means those who care for the worldy things, materialistic (riches) things of the world and are carnal and never convert or put away thier sins in true repentance, so the worldly things choke the word (seed/gospel) out of their life, and these people become unfruitful in doing the works of the Lord and obeying the gospel, and are unsaved becasue they refuse to get rid of thier sins.

4.. The seed (gospel) that has been sown or fell on good ground are those who hear the gospel/receive the word, this is called good ground, these are the people who are not only hearers of the gospel, but are doers of the gospel,and they come forth and bear good furit because the seed(word) takes root and grows, they repent of their sins and don't look back They prove their new birth and do everything they can to obey God's word.

Considering what makes some receive and not, Jesus has pointed out all of this in this parable the reason why some receive the seed (word/gospel) and why some don't. Peoplel enjoy sin, and sin is fun, otherwise if it wasn't true, we would not have stayed in sin for so long even after hearing the truth of our sins through the hearing of the gospel. Hope this helps...

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